dddd

It would be really cool if those lightweight early Cyclone derailers worked on popular index systems.

One of us needs to try this on a Shimano SIS bike.

I once was told that Suntour's index models worked exactly like a Pre-9sp Dura-Ace derailer, and remember having seen folks using them with those first-gen STI shifters 15 or 20 years ago. I never have tested it myself, but have used many other mis-matched index components with varied success over the years.

My 7-speed Suntour shifters did work well on a 5-speed freewheel using a 1970's Shimano Tourney rear derailer, which shared it's architecture with better Shimano derailers and was even copied by Simplex.

peazweag

me too,using shimano 7 sd indexed with a suntour VX RD works fine

Charles Wahl

Here's an interesting reference (UK) if you care to do some metrics with an "unknown" derailer and compare to the various systems:
https://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=%203946

It seems to me that a way to approach this would be:
-Use indexed shifters of a given type (with friction-selectable option), and indexed freewheel or cassette of a given type.
-Install cables with some sort of precision hardpoint on the frame, and a model airplane wheel collar (with setscrew) affixed to rear shift cable very close to that hardpoint.
-Do multiple tests using shifters in friction mode, measuring the distance between hardpoint and collar for what you feel is "perfect" alignment in each gear (preferably established by riding, not simply on a work stand). That gives you a baseline for the required cable travel characteristics of that derailer across the range of cogs involved. I think that a significant question about pre-indexing derailers is: do they have a more or less "linear" response to cable pull, or non-linear?
-Repeat with the "hubbub" or "Sheldon alternate cable" configuration, if that's any help.
-Use a Travel Agent if that helps.
-Use friction if all else fails, or you run out of patience.
-Most important: report findings back to C&V!

Charles Wahl

Did I kill this thread? I'm sorry.

fender1

^ No. I am just waiting ti get the RD so I can try it out. Maybe in a week or so? I will report back.

Amesja

If you are going to mix-n-match non-vintage stuff on a C&V bike in you might as well just ditch the old crusty RD and get a modern Shimano one to match the indexing shifters. It's not like used ones (or even new ones) are that expensive. And the performance will be 10,000 times better.

fender1

That I know. I am trying to keep it looking as vintage as possible. We all know that looks are the most important thing. I don't ride bikes anyway, too much work.

photogravity

Seems I heard you're beyond redemption.

photogravity

I know I don't if there's a hill of any sort in the picture.

acoffin 

It is possible to buy a new rd that performs worse than the cyclone. It's a beautifully engineered piece that deserves to be enjoyed. Besides, where's the fun in putting on something you already know will work?

Clarke33

I know this is a couple of months old but I am in the middle of the same thing. I am doing a rebuild on my old Trek 614 and love trying weird stuff (former bike mechanic also). I will have a definitive answer in about a week as time allows. What I am going to try is a a set of 9 speed microshift bar ends mated to my original Cyclone II's. Hope it works but if it doesn't it isn't the end of the world either.

Captain Blight

I got a Suntour V to index more-or-less over a shimano 6 speed with SRAM 7-speed grip-shift (no idea what generation). It was okay but no better than that.

seedsbelize 

I'm about to do just that, when i return from the US, mid December. 105 shifters with Cyclone GT Rd. I expect it to work just fine. I always expect things to work just fine.

Bianchigirll 

What ever happened to this experiment? Did it work or did Fender implode when the connected suntour and shimano via the conductivity of the shifter cable?

fender1

Nah, just found a really nice 80's Deore long cage (all silver) that does the job really well w/ no futzing.

Folsomjack

Yes I did, did'nt work Got an Altus and it worked fine

seedsbelize 

fail in my case. I just now put that cyclone on a bike with bar end shifters. I got a 105 rd for that bike and, of course, it works fine.

The Golden Boy 

Yes, this thread is old.

But along those lines- I have a pre-index Suntour 5sp FW. I have an XC Comp RD- and some Dura Ace 6sp DT shifters. I just set the shifters for friction- since I knew it wouldn't work. I was moving things around in the basement- put that bike up on a stand, and just for giggles changed it to SIS. PERFECT shifting. There was only a little stutter going in and out of the 34T cog. But that was more about the huge jump between cogs- not the indexing. That was pretty cool, and completely unexpected.

philg

I'll chime in on this. I've run a Suntour Superbe Pro rear derailleur (84ish) with indexed Shimano shifters and 7-speed Shimano cassettes for 8 years with no issue. I've used indexed XT m730 thumbies and m739 rapid fires.

GordoTrek

i didn't do it with a cyclone, but i did with a suntour xc7 or something, whatever came stock on my 1990 trek 930, the front shifter broke on it so i swapped them with shimano trigger shifters, worked like a boss

Rouelibre

Fast Forward two years - we're now in April 2016 - and I can reply that yes, the late-generation Suntour Superbe Pro rear derailleur is configured like the 8-speed Dura Ace derailleur that was its greatest rival at the time. Suntour apparently wanted to give its users the option to keep their Suntour drivetrains, and only buy the Shimano 8-speed shifters. I recently set up my old 1985 Cannondale (126mm rear dropout spacing) to run 7 speeds on a shimano-spaced 8-speed Sachs freewhweel (removed 12 tooth cog) with the Dura Ace 8-speed brifters. Shifts perfectly! I had tried to use regular Shimano 8-speed brifters, with a whole host of different cable attachment configurations to no avail. Switched to the 9-speed spacing that is the same as the old 8-speed Dura Ace, and voila! Cheers!

The Golden Boy 

Awesome!

I love those Superbe Pro derailleurs- I just have to lose my self-imposed *need* to have a 28 in the rear to use them.

stardognine

That's what Sheldon said, the shift-levers & freewheel are what matters, if they "match" or not. And it's my understanding that the "7000" in Cyclone 7000 is how you know it was Accushift, versus normal Cyclone.

The Golden Boy 

Yes and no-

The shifter is going to pull as much cable per click as it's designed to.

The derailleur is going to move as much per mm of cable pull as it's designed to.

The distance between cogs... is the distance between cogs.

You've got to match all 3.

Accushift gets goofy after 6 speeds. From 1-6, the spacing is even. After that there's difference in cog spacing- and that is all factored into the shifter pull clicks and the pull of the derailleur and the spacers between cogs...

I do have sets of 7 speed and 8 speed shifters- I haven't gotten brave enough to mess with them.

For the time being, I'm content in living with in the confines of 6 speed and loudly proclaiming "ACCUSHIFT WORKS AS WELL AS SIS!!!"

I know better, but 6 speed Accushift is pretty predictable.

OldsCOOL

Good explaining going on here. When I bought a '89 Raleigh Technium PRE, it had an accushift 6sp that was an out of tune mess. I learned how they work (or dont work) in the first ride. When the chain/FW/derailleur was degreased and relubed, adjusted properly, it worked very well and never missed a shift. It wasnt as smooth as my Shimano 600 HG 7sp (that is spooky smooth, quiet and quick) but was never disappointment.