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Old 10-30-13, 03:34 AM   #1
bwilli88
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Raleigh Grand Prix; 10 speed conversion

I have a nice 74 Raleigh Grand Prix that is a nice bike but needs new rims. I like the front wide flange hub and plan to have it rebuilt with a nice alloy rim and stainless spokes. The "sacrilege" would be to replace the rear wheel with a S-A 3 speed IGH. I would take off the FD and RD, and all the cables along with the downtube shifters and clamp. This will leave a nice clean line. I would like to mount the shifter on either the top tube or on the down tube near where the DT shifters are now. I also would like to change the crank and front sprocket to a single speed 52t.
When I ride either my MTB or my Fuji road bike, i ride with a 52t or 50t front sprocket and some where around a 13t to 15t. What sprokets do you recommend for that lazy day and that downhill with a 3 speed.
Reasoning is that here in Cambodia with the rain and dust a IGH will be much better than a derailleur and where I live in Cambodia is really flat.
So What do I need?
Initial list I know I want to purchase:
27" SA 3 speed hubbed rear wheel 36h alloy rim
170mm SS 52t Crankset
Rat trap type pedals
So What else Do I need and what do you suggest.
Shifter of some sorts?
cables?


Here it is as I left it in the States
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Old 10-30-13, 05:21 AM   #2
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I have a little experience with 3-speeds, but there are some here who are 3-speed experts and advocates. They'll be chiming in with experinece shortly.

I like to think about these things in gear inches. Let's say that you'd like a basic cruising gear that's 90 rpms at, say, 16 mph. That sets your chainring at about 44T and your cog at 20T, for roughly 60 gear inches. For a planetary gearing system, your lower gear will be 0.75 of the cruising (middle gear), or ~ 45 GI. Your upper gear will be 1.33 x middle = ~80 GI.

For me, that would be about right for most but the hilliest conditions. Please check my math, as I've typed this hastily. I assumed 27" wheels for your Raleigh.
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Old 10-30-13, 06:43 AM   #3
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I have a little experience with 3-speeds, but there are some here who are 3-speed experts and advocates. They'll be chiming in with experinece shortly.

I like to think about these things in gear inches. Let's say that you'd like a basic cruising gear that's 90 rpms at, say, 16 mph. That sets your chainring at about 44T and your cog at 20T, for roughly 60 gear inches. For a planetary gearing system, your lower gear will be 0.75 of the cruising (middle gear), or ~ 45 GI. Your upper gear will be 1.33 x middle = ~80 GI.

For me, that would be about right for most but the hilliest conditions. Please check my math, as I've typed this hastily. I assumed 27" wheels for your Raleigh.
Phil's got it right.

For me a 52T chainring w/ the AW cogs available would be a leg-breaker.
I'm running a 44T chainring w/ a Cyclo 3-cog derail. for a gear range of 41-108", top gear is purely decorative.
Keep in mind that AW is 1/2x1/8" chain when sourcing parts.
The bar-con AW shifter works a treat.
Don't forget the mudguards & a bell.

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Old 10-30-13, 09:06 AM   #4
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I typically ride with a 50 and am using my 13, 15 and 17 the most on my 700c road bike. Those work out to be 104, 90,and 80gi. With the Raleigh and using a 50x16 and 27 inch wheels works out to 85gi with a lower of 65gi or a 21t and a upper of 110gi or a 12t. Not ideal but would work here in flat Cambodia.

O yes, what other bits and pieces do I need.
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Old 10-30-13, 09:21 AM   #5
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I would agree with 52t- 15t being way too high for a three speed. Typically for a 3speed roadster on is looking at a standard 20t rear cog and a mid 40's front chainring. Most SA hubs where designed for 44/20 gearing which about right for commuting on mostly flat terrain. If one wanted to run more gear inches they should probaly consider a 5 ot 8speed IGH or traditional road gearing.
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Old 10-30-13, 11:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
O yes, what other bits and pieces do I need.
The good folks at Harris Cycle speak Sturmey and build custom wheels.
The old AW is a thing of the past but they can set you up w/ all the bits & bobs from a built wheel though the indicator chain, fulcrum stop, pulley wheel, shifter and drive chain for the current SRF3.

http://harriscyclery.net/sitesearch....=6&startRow=31

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Old 10-30-13, 02:16 PM   #7
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FWIW, I run a 42 up front, with a 19 in back. A bit low, but it gets up most hills, and in "cruise mode" I'm not really hitting things very hard anyway. This is with a 28 x 700c, BTW.
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Old 10-30-13, 06:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bwilli88 View Post
I typically ride with a 50 and am using my 13, 15 and 17 the most on my 700c road bike. Those work out to be 104, 90,and 80gi. With the Raleigh and using a 50x16 and 27 inch wheels works out to 85gi with a lower of 65gi or a 21t and a upper of 110gi or a 12t. Not ideal but would work here in flat Cambodia.

O yes, what other bits and pieces do I need.
Your cadence must be low, or you are a strong racer. Cadence in the 60s-70s on the flat? Try gearing down by 20% or so.
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Old 10-30-13, 07:43 PM   #9
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A Grand Prix isn't such a rare and special bike that you can't do whatever you like with it. I like the sound of what you're planning, except the 52 ring up front sounds pretty crazy to me too, unless there are no significant hills on your routes. The IGH sounds like just the ticket for your rainy and dusty Cambodian roads, but don't forget the fenders, too.
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Old 10-31-13, 03:18 AM   #10
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I use a 42-18 combination for gearing of 47, 63, and 84 inches. It works pretty well for the flatlands around here.
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Old 10-31-13, 06:28 AM   #11
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Here is a link to a Strave ride I did the other day and rode with my 50 front and either a 13 or 15 most of the ride. http://www.strava.com/activities/91961750
I wont be worrying about any hills because with a 47km ride and 33m of rise over all, what I ride is very flat. I think I might try before I buy but 50 or 48 for the front and somewhere between 13 to 17 for the rear will work for me.
Distance 47.7km
Elevation 33m
Max Speed 37.8 Kph
Avg Speed 23.1 Kph
Moving Time 02:04:13

Now what bits and bobs do I need to do this project.
will a single Downtube shifter work to operate a SA 3 speed hub?

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Old 10-31-13, 04:50 PM   #12
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Sounds like a great idea. One thought (which I don't know the answer to, but others probably do) - Is a Sturmey Archer IGH significantly heavier than the existing multiple freewheel, derailleur(s), longer chain - and if so, how much lower would the gearing need to be to compensate for any additional rotational mass? The low-maintenance reliability of the IGH is legendary.
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Old 10-31-13, 05:58 PM   #13
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When I built mine, There was about 4 pound savings with the IGH vs. the derailleurs. Some of that was switching to alloy rims.
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Old 10-31-13, 06:37 PM   #14
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When I built mine, There was about 4 pound savings with the IGH vs. the derailleurs. Some of that was switching to alloy rims.
eavier than 2lbs.

Well modern alloy rims save about 2lbs-3lbs over chromed steel.
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Old 11-01-13, 08:42 AM   #15
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Bwilli88,

Using your data:

- average speed + 14.1 mpg
- using 50 x 15t "most of the time"
- ~90 gear inches

So if you're running 90 gear inches "most of the time" and averaging 14.1 mph, then your cadence is sub 60 rpm.

I know that there are quite a few simplifying assumptions in this, but you might want to re-think your gearing a bit.

As for parts, begin with your rear wheel with IGH, and find the matching shifter. The rest is simply a means to secure a cable run between your rearmost shift cable guide and the IGH indicator cable anchor.
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Old 11-01-13, 08:50 AM   #16
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Now what bits and bobs do I need to do this project.
Read post #6 .
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Old 11-01-13, 08:57 AM   #17
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thnks
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Old 11-03-13, 09:42 PM   #18
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More
1. So I have decided to go with a 48t 170mm crank. I would like to stay with a square taper spindle and light weight, any good suggestions for one.

2. What are some good light drop bar brake levers that would allow routing the cables under the bar wrap.

3. Has anyone swapped to just a 3 speed and coaster brake and gotten rid of rim brakes altogether?
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Old 12-04-14, 12:19 AM   #19
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Thread ressurection
I recently picked up a 76 Raleigh Grand Prix frame, fork, headset, bottom bracket, along with a stem and bars.

Now to get it here in Cambodia!
I have here in Cambodia; 27" Araya alloy rims, pedals, Seat and post, centerpull brakes with cables and housing, tubes.
I have in the States with the frame; Aero brake levers and kenda 27 x 1 3/8 knobby gravel tires.
Need to get; tape, SA AW 3 speed hub and accessories, front hub, spokes, and front brake cable stop for centerpull brakes.
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