orangeology

been looking for an old mtb frame for a commuter conversion (1 x N setup) and found some candies.
Gary Fisher (Comp '84-ish, i guess) or Paramount Series 70 '92-ish.

if similar price + within the reach + workable size, what would it be?
both has similar, relatively short chainstays.

GF has rear canti bosses under the chainstays (unique?).
Paramount has a better aesthetic condition, GF is with a bit rough paint but no rusties.
guess both are made of Tange Prestige.

one questionable thing is where the GF's ST is welded to the BB. looks like it's forced to be oval shape. is it an ordinary thingie?

any opinions, insights or experiences appreciated.

WNG

The GF is circa 88, given the chainstay U-brake bosses. These are not compatible with cantilevers.
The Tange MTB DB tubing is not Tange Prestige, but a non-heat-treated version.

The pics aren't great, so I can't tell if the GF has an Evolution headset/fork. These can trouble finding a stem for. (1-1/4")
And 88 GF would make this a pre-Trek era frame, but from the looks of it, it's made by GF's Taiwanese partner of that time. It's a nice frame, but the lack of original finish, doesn't warrant the price.

The Series 70, is pretty high up the PDG offering line up. If it's Prestige tubing, it's a better buy, plus the standard canti bosses are more desirable.
The original finish looks to be intact. Most 90s era rigid MTBs had the geometry dialed in better for handling and performance too. The 80s frames had a more lazy geometry. A simple rule of thumb, 80s=long chainstays, 90s=long top tube.

Problem is, which frame is a better fit. Can you ride the smaller 18" frame?

zukahn1 

I think the Schwinn looks to be a better choice. It looks to be in good condition and will readily take most modern parts. The GF is in rough shape for the price and you could have issues finding correct parts. Yet if your looking for a bike to build into a commuter in a 80's hard frame you can likely get a whole bike similar to these locally in this price range.

oddjob2

Are you doing a drop bar conversion?

I don't know if you're in a hurry for a winter commuter, but I think you can do a whole lot better price wise with a complete bike, unless you have your parts kit ready to go. I've picked up complete Stumpjumpers, Cannondale M500, Bianchi Grizzly, more Stumpjumpers, PDG 20 and PDG 40, Miyata Terra Runner, Miyata Ridge Runner, various Gary F's and Trek 950 from $25-$150. These are typically Deore or at least STX equipped.

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/4231524979.html

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bik/4242031922.html

https://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/4246431002.html

https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/4241579111.html

John E

Make sure you know whether the brake bosses on the GF are for cantis versus U-brakes/RollerCams. My Schwinn takes the latter, which I like, but replacement parts and updates/upgrades could be a challenge. I don't particularly care for my under-chainstay rear brake mounting position, but it is not that big a strike against an otherwise enjoyable bike, and it is kind of fun to have something a bit different.

The one on Mombat has a conventional canti front brake (bosses below the rim), but my fork takes a RollerCam or a Ubrake, instead (bosses above the rim).

https://mombat.org/MOMBAT/Bikes/1988_Schwinn_KOM.html

zukahn1 

Some nice bike spotting Oddjob2 the Cannondale looks like a great choice for building up a choice commuter out of a classic hard frame and could nicely be used as a basic commuter as is. The Kona is a little pricer but it needs nothing to be a great commuter other than a rider.

KonAaron Snake 

Agree with Oddjob - I've gotten Deore DX level MTBs for well under $200, complete, numerous times. Stumpjumpers - Treks, etc.

I know a guy locally - he has a BEAUTIFUL lugged Trek 970...I THINK he still has it...and he wanted a little more for it - about $250 - but it's a nicer bike and a better deal than either of these IMO.

revcp 

I have a '91 PDG Series 70. It's a great mountain bike, but I would not build it up as a commuter. My commuter is an' 86 High Sierra. The High Sierra frame is perfect for commuting. Agree too that the price is a bit high. I paid $200 for mine mint, full bike. Even that felt a bit steep, but it was exactly what I was looking for. I'm not sure I've ever ridden a bike that fits me better.

bconneraz

I'm a Paramount guy, but between the two, I would select the GF for a commuter soley based on the fact that the Paramount has no eyelets for a rack and or fenders.

zukahn1 

Well the High Siera is a true classic the first commcerially marketed high end MTB. As for value the orignal vector bull mouse stem bars readily go for $100+.

bikemig 

No. 1. You can pick up a quality used mtb complete bike for the prices of those frames. Leaving aside questions of valuation and parts availability, the longer wheelbase bike has some advantages for a commuter. Longer chainstays are a plus if you're planning on using a rack.

orangeology

MANY MANY thanks for great advice and insights!!!
looks like I need to be a bit more patient looking for a big picture, then.
in no rush, so i have time, I guess.
thanks for the CL links, oddjob! will definitely check them out.


ps
never dealt with canti or u brakes yet. more study to be done

ps2
considering a CX frameset too, if I can ever find a 'good' one. i know it's harder.
will appreciate some leads if available.

miamijim

I'd get the Paramount....I have that identical bike. It's constructed Tange Prestige tubing. The Fisher could have older geometry...

miamijim

Night and day between the chainstays...the GF has those early 80's extra super long chainstays from when they were still trying to figure out mtb geometry.

oddjob2

If you need me to check something out near I80/I287, I'm here for a week. Eighteen months ago I picked this immaculately clean and complete Series 40 for about $125; to this day Thrifty Bill thinks I stole it, but I know I am a noob compared to Bill's buying skills.

orangeology

thanks for the tip, Bill! and yes. it's always the size, i guess


liking the duo, very much!


that'd be great, David! thanks for the kind offer. buying skill approved by TB, what could ask more?
PM'ing you soon on this, Sir.

orangeology

Paramount seems a better choice over GF, based on all o' opinions/insights.
will procrastinate a bit for awhile as the frame doesn't look go away soon w that price. taking a chance.

quick questionaire generic here:
if i ride 20 - 21" road, what should be the right size equivalent in olde 'vintage' mtb world (circa '80 - '90 ish)? 18 - 19" ?

azgreg

Bill, that Series 7 looks awesome! Can I have it?

KonAaron Snake 

Dare I ask what became of the Merlin?

orangeology

you think i could resist....?

Chrome Molly

Late to the party, but the series 70 frame is tange prestige and a nice rider. Price is high, especially if you have to add in shipping. Just paid $275 shipped for my complete and really really nice series 90, so unless you have a complete gruppo just sitting around for an earlier MTB frame, I'd keep looking. Also be sure to check for small cracks where the seat stays connect to the seat tube, somewhat common if it was drop jumpped excessively, though the frame itself is pretty rugged.

As far as other options... The later trek 930's are almost steals with their 24 speed gearing, true temper tube set, canti brakes, otherwise decent components... They are begging for drop bars and campy 10 brifters ala shimergo. If pre-suspension is your thing, keep an eye out for the old Fuji MTB's that are prestige also. Those are very under appreciated and prestige fujis with 1 inch headtubes can go for as little as $100 complete in my market.

bikemig 

U brakes are a PITA; I'm setting one up now and I had forgotten how much of a pain they can be. They work fine though.

No. 1 on higher end vintage MTBs being awesome and under-appreciated bikes. My 1989 stump comp has a u brake and a nice long wheelbase; my 1991 stumpy team is a short wheelbase mtb. I love both the bikes and I'd think about picking up another high end mtb if the right bike came along:

oddjob2

And sometimes you can find unadvertised deals for $25!!!!!