ejaggers

Thanks Snake for the explanation....I'm still not sure why anyone would want that, but at least now I know what it is.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Go make that same post in SS/FG and see what happens. I'll bring some weenies to roast over the flames.

300# Gorilla

Wasn't Schwinn's problem in the 70's that it wasn't able to produce a mass market lug framed bike in the Chicago factory? A step up from the Varsity? They went to Bridgestone and Panasonic in Japan (and later to Giant in Taiwan) to make these to Schwinn's standards (Schwinn Approved). They replaced the Super Sport, Sport Tourer and Superior with the Le Tour, Super Le Tour etc. The World Sport-Tour-Traveler seemed to be a lugged alternative to the Varsity.
So what is more desirable through the lens of history? The under appreciated (and rarer) original or the Improved offering to the fickle mass market? (OK, the Varsity is not rare, after the apocalypse there will be giant cockroaches riding EF Schwinns)

Metacortex

Schwinn did actually produce lugged frames in Chicago for the Le Tour/Super Le Tour in '79 and '80: Schwinn 1979 Bicycles And Accessories -- Le Tour IV

Unfortunately the Chicago factory was going downhill by that time, it stopped producing the "torch brazed" lugged frames in 1980 and closed in '83.

OrangeOkie

Yes, all the bikes are mine. Went through that stage on ebay, if you know what I mean.

The Golden Boy 

So they just CHOSE to make boat anchors and ignore the proverbial 300# Gorilla in the room.

Metacortex

They did try but were too late. Schwinn opened a new factory in Greenville MS in '81 and moved the equipment to produce lugged framed bikes there. Unfortunately they just couldn't make that work cost-wise and depended more and more on imported bikes. The Greenville plant closed in '91 and Schwinn went bankrupt 2 years later: A Rough Ride for Schwinn Bicycle (washingtonpost.com)

The Golden Boy 

It seems most things that came out of the Greenville plant are well regarded by history- I don't know about at the time. I wonder if by that point "Schwinn = Tank" had been ingrained in society. I recall reading some post on some forum- maybe here, maybe somewhere else- but the poster was unable to comprehend that a bike with the Schwinn name could be among the very finest ever made- and not in a joking sort of way.

I seriously believe my Voyageur SP to be among the finest touring bikes ever- but I never hear it mentioned in the Trek 720/Miyata 1000/Specialized Expedition company. Whether it's a matter of the "Schwinn" name or the "Voyageur" name... or whether there's something that people know that I don't...

Metacortex

According to the book "No Hands" Schwinn dealers had a lot of problems with bikes coming out of Greenville, which seemed to be mostly the mid-range models. It seemed that both the low-end (made by Giant) and high-end (made by Panasonic) bikes fared much better quality-wise. I agree the Voyageurs were fantastic, they were Panasonic made. It seems Greenville was capable of producing decent bikes though, I love the Cimarron and the Super Sport of the time seems to be highly regarded and both of those were made in Greenville.

ejaggers

Golden,
As you know, Fender is the iconic name in guitars/basses. Most musicians amateur or pro, especially bassist, play either a Fender or a Fender Copy. Are there better brands out there, of course.

So my question is, Isn’t Schwinn the iconic name in C&V bikes? I always look at Schwinn’s on CL first, then look at others like Raleigh, Huffy, AMF, or Peugeot.

The Golden Boy 

Not at all.

Schwinn made their fortune selling well made, indestructible bikes for the "everyman." While a 38 pound bike for an "enthusiast" may have been acceptable in the 40s, 50s and 60s- starting with the 70s- a 38 pound bike was too heavy.

I would not even look at Huffy or AMF bikes, and Raleighs and Peugeots are out of my range of interest.

ejaggers

Okay, so what's the iconic brand for C&V bikes if not Schwinn???

KonAaron Snake 

I would say the most iconic brands are Raleigh and Peugeot.

Steve Whitlatch 

My crappy USA made Schwinn Circuit. Made of crappy Columbus Sl tubing. If I listened to the reviews of those that never rode one, I would never have bought this fantastic bike.

The Golden Boy 

I guess it depends on who you ask.

I'll say Trek. They didn't put out garbage. If you see a pre 88 Trek- it's going to be a really good bike, with really good components.

The Golden Boy 

Then again, you have a very special "Huffy."

ejaggers

I’ve heard Raleigh, Peugeot, and Trek.

So what brand who you said is the iconic brand for C&V bikes???

YouthxCrew

All I know is that a year or two of searching and I still haven't found a World Voyageur, LeTour, Super LeTour, or Superior in my size (at 5'1, that makes slim pickins for any frame) and it bums me out. LBS has a slightly too small World Voyageur at a price nobody should pay, however.

KonAaron Snake 

There are le tours on Philly CL all of the time. Have you checked via or firehouse?

Steve Whitlatch 

I would definitely include Schwinn. Every company sold boat anchors and every company sold high end. Schwinn just sold millions more.

3alarmer 

....................................

Scooper

I agree; the range of Schwinn models from balloon tired cruisers to electroforged "lightweights" , to the fillet brazed chromoly models, to lugged hi-ten Le Tours and Travelers, to the eighties lugged Tenax and SL performance and touring bikes, to the world class Prologues and Paramounts, there was a broad spectrum of low-end, middle market, and high end models to suit every taste and budget. The millions of Schwinns sold in the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties make the brand iconic.

bconneraz

I think this all comes down to what you saw, rode, and were around while growing up or getting into cycling. Raleigh and Peugeot? I've never considered owning either, nor do I have any desire to own one, pretty much because I never saw them when I started out in the 80's. Schwinn, Masi, DeRosa, Colnago, Merckx.......those are the bikes I saw and lusted after, and those are the same bikes that tug on my heart strings today. That said, there are many that obviously would never own a Schwinn; My Paramount, Superior, and Cimarron (s) are some of my favorites. To each his or her own.

And when I read about perceived quality here; I'm curious how many actually ride these bikes? Those that do know how good some of these bikes are. I for one LOVE my Greenville built Cimarron- she just turned 3k for the year.

The Golden Boy 

I think you'd have to have a relatively decent knowledge of what you're looking for- to search something out solely based on the "Schwinn" name isn't much of any more of a descriptor than "old bike."

Steve Whitlatch 

True. The same can be said of other iconic brands though. There are way more low end bikes on CL from all the big name manufacturers than the good high end ones.