jethro56 

I believe shimano STI shifters can have shims installed that will shorten the reach for the brakes. The Synapese Carbon 5 and the Trek Madone 4.5 have triple cranks available.

motobecane69

lol, i must have missed the letter F when trying to spell SHIFTERS!

CACycling

I know some of them do. My wife's road bike (Shimano R700 shifters - 105 level) came with 2 sets in different thicknesses to adjust reach. Down side is that you loose a bit of travel by using the shims. They really only make a difference when you are in the drops. On the hoods I don't see where it would make a difference.

goldfinch

He installed shims for my ride. It helped a little but not enough.

The only Madonne that comes in a 43cm size is the 4.7 which has a double crank. Are there options to lower the gearing by getting different sized chain rings?

The Trek Lexa, an aluminum bike, has a 43 cm version in the highest end model. That has a triple.

These are the two smallest standard options for me aside from Terry.

motobecane69

most likely it is a compact double so the rings are 50/34. mated with an 11/32 casette you will have pretty low gearing. i know you have mtb cranks up front now, (48/38/28 right?) but what do you have on the rear. if you have something like an 11-28, than a your 28/28 lowest gear is only gonna be ever so slightly lower than a compact with a low gear of 34/32. I wouldn't fear the compact, especially with all the weight you lost. I ride a compact and recently went from an 11/32 to a 12/25 casette on it because I've gotten that much stronger as a rider.

Lastly, the bike with the triple will probably be a 50/39/30 but often times they don't put as big of a casette stock on a triple so it may only have a 12/25 on the back. IT's easy enough to change casettes and a good shop should be willing to do it without an upcharge since they can probably reswap your casette elsewhere. Also, there is some flexibility to change the size of the chainrings on the front of the bike but that would probably be at an additional cost. how low you can go depends on the deraileur that is installed. I would put the focus on finding your fit first and then hash out the drivetrain second.

goldfinch

Thanks Moto. You have been very helpful.

pinsonp2 

Goldfinch,

I see on BF that you just got a Madone. What's the skinny? By the way, I love my Madone and hope you have a great experience with yours.

P2

goldfinch

Yup! I was going to start a thread but it is garden vegetable processing time so I've been busy.

I got the tiny little 43cm Madone 4.7 with a 48cm top tube and 650 wheels. I had few options. Terry, which I would have difficulty arranging a ride first. The Trek Madone 4.7 or the top end Trek Lexa. The LBS recommended against the aluminum Lexa. The Felt, which makes a petite size bike similar to the Trek, but tough to track down to ride. For similar money it seemed like the Trek was as good or even better deal. Or I could have gone custom or semi custom. I tried the Madone and liked it. I decided that custom may be ideal but in the interest of getting a road bike before getting on the road for the winter and saving at least a few bucks I went with the Madone. I got a good price for the 2011 (one of the last at the factory) plus I am getting a full fit, with the preliminary work done which led to the custom pedal recommendation. I had to jump on it because this model is not available in 2012 in the small frame with the 650 wheels. So the decision was made more quickly than what I would have liked

I am waiting on customized Speedplay pedals. The shaft on pedals are too long for me according to my fitter. It is going to take a couple of weeks for the pedals. I am also waiting on a new seat post as the stock post does not fit my beloved seat, a Terry Butterfly Carbon. The fitter is also looking to see if any shorter stems are available.

Today is cold and windy and I haven't got out to try the bike. Right now it is wearing the stock seat and my power grip pedals from my Quick. I hope to give a ride report in a few days. I do know that I can't stand the stock seat but I will live with it until my seat post comes in. My Quick is in the shop getting some modifications to become my ratty dirt road bike and equipment hauler. New more aggressive tires. Lower profile rack. Modified kick stand. It turns out that a lot of my problems with the front derailleur are due to interference from the kick stand.

jethro56 

I hope you like it as well as I do my 4.5.

goldfinch

The weather isn't cooperating, cold and windy, but I took a break from the veggies and went for a little ride, just four miles. I am having another day where I can't get warm. I rode on the road that I regularly ride my Quick. The bike is much faster on the downhill and the flats. It is much, much quieter. It pedals so smoothly! It takes little road defects better, far less harsh a ride. I do feel like I am flying. It is still a little awkward so I am glad that my clipless pedals won't be here for a week or so. Shifting is unfamiliar, though it shifts nicely I have a hard time keeping track of where I am in the gears and sometimes mix up harder vs. easier gears. That will work itself out with time. I am not as comfortable turning the bike and it feels just a bit twitchy but that also should go away with experience. Riding with my hands on the hoods is a bit uncomfortable, not yet sure why. The tops and the drops were fine. It might be the reach that is getting me on the hoods. Or just an unfamiliar position. I didn't really notice it test riding but there were so many unfamiliar things going on when I tested that I am not surprised. I can brake easily compared to the slightly larger bikes I tried.

The one issue is the gearing which is not near as low as the Quick. I did a short ride, going up one hill but not the next hill, which is much steeper and I end up in first gear on the Quick. The hill I did go up required me to go in lowest gear. I kind of expected that and have been talking the the LBS about a switch to mountain gearing. I haven't decided yet and in fact may wait until next spring. In winter I will be in Texas and I won't need lower gearing.

One minor problem is that I have to ride a quarter mile from my house down a dirt road that is kind of sandy, before reaching a paved road. The Quick of course handles that fine. It was very difficult to ride the dirt with the road bike. But a quarter mile I can live with.

pinsonp2 

Sounds pretty much like my first few rides on a road bike. I perservered because I loved the ease of getting to that 'flying' feeling. Now a road bike is my preferred ride. With my Madone I can do longer rides (>30mi) without feeling too beat up. Unfortunately, I am stationary in Michigan and the road bike season will end in the next month or two. I bet you will have some fantastic rides in Texas on your new Madone!!!

Enjoy the ride
P2

goldfinch

Today I rode it 18.5 miles. I would have gone further but the stock seat and I had a disagreement. I rode a nice varied ride to get a feel for the bike and for shifting before I get my clipless pedals. I went up and down the hills, shifting through most all the gears. I still once in a while mixed up whether I was going up or down on the rear derailleur and also would not pick the best place to shift to or from the big chain ring and the small. Nevertheless, by the end of the ride I was getting pretty comfortable with shifting and knowing where I was at in the sequence.

One big worry of mine was the gearing as it is a compact double and not geared as low as my Quick. I previously had ridden a couple of slightly larger bikes and found that they were not geared at all low enough for me. So, I was prepared to change out to a more mountain gearing set up, which turns out would be a bit fussy but doable on the Madone. The particular ride I did today had three hills that I always have to go up in first gear on my Quick. I wondered if I could make it up the hills in first on the Madone. I was surprised. I was able to do every hill. On the three steepest hills I was pedaling slow but I made it up. On the Quick I could spin the pedals faster than the Madone. Nevertheless, I made it up. I also used first gear on a couple of lower but longer hills, that worked fine.

My current plan is to keep the gearing set up for the winter in flat Texas, and then see where I am at in the spring and where I plan to ride.

The twitchy feeling has mostly gone away. Instead, I would call it responsive. However, I had a couple of awkward moments looking over my shoulder.

I really like varying the hand positions. I am still unclear whether the reach is really too far when I am on the hoods. It probably is. I tend to slide a bit forward on the seat. However, part of the problem was due to trying to get comfortable on the Second Worst Seat in the Entire World (The first being the seat on my old so called comfort bike).

This bike takes roughness in the pavement far, far better than my Quick, even when I reduce air pressure on the Quick tires.

goldfinch

I thought this is as good a place to add this as anywhere. I have been having no end of problems with the front derailleur on my Quick. It has been worked on four times in the 1000 miles I have ridden it since I bought it this spring. It never has operated correctly, either with gears unavailable or grinding of the derailleur in many of the gears. Cannondale even changed out a good portion of the drive train. The mechanic at the Trek dealer said the problem is from the kick stand and they are going to put on a different type of stand. We will see. It would be weird if such a simple solution cures the problem.

CraigB

The mnemonic I use to help me remember which paddle/lever to use on my 105 brifters is to go by the size of the paddle/lever - small or large, it's the same as the size of the gear in question. For example, the large (brake) lever at my right hand will cause the RD to shift to a larger sprocket, while the smaller paddle (behind the brake lever) will cause it to shift to a smaller sprocket. At the left hand, the large (brake) lever will cause the FD to shift to the bigger chainring, while the smaller paddle will shift to the smaller chainring.

CraigB

That's an acquired skill that'll come with practice. The tendency is (usually) to drift in the direction of the shoulder you're looking over. It can be overcome.

goldfinch

Well that is nice and straightforward! Thanks!

CraigB

The only other thing you have to remember is that the effect of moving to a larger or smaller diameter gear is the opposite, front to back (bigger gear in front is higher, bigger gear in back is lower). But that's been the way of the world with derailleurs since forever, and has nothing to do with any particular brand or type of shifters.

jethro56 

The biggest issue I have with my Madone 4.5 is the huge jump between the front sprockets. On my 7300 I rarely changed out of the middle gear. On the compact double I must plan ahead much more often. In order to have a 16 tooth difference the front deraileur is so much more narrow. Chain rubbing against it so much easier. The upside of this is it makes me want to expand my range of cadence which will make me a better cyclist.

CraigB

That jump between a 50 and 34 was a big deal for me to get used to, having ridden for 30+ years with 52/42 cranks. If I needed an incrementally higher or lower gear (a change smaller than you'd get from simply going from one cog in back to the next adjacent one), all I ever had to do was shift between chainrings and then move one cog the other way in back. For example, if I was on the small ring in front and wanted a higher gear, but not as much higher as shifting to the next smaller cog in back, I'd shift to the big ring in front, and shift to the next larger cog in back. The combination of going higher in front and lower in back (or vice versa if I needed to go the other direction) would usually get me a minute change in the overall gear inches. Now, with a compact crank, that operation requires moving 2 or sometimes 3 cogs in back because of the huge gap between the 50 and 34 chainrings.

It's taking some getting used to, for sure.

Oh, and as far as chain rub on the FD cage, the friendly folks at Nebo Ridge showed me that my front brifter is designed to allow trimming those shifts - you can use the levers to make small adjustments to the position of the cage if you're getting rubbing. I didn't know that - I thought it was strictly a two-position system.

goldfinch

Yup, I have no problem with that. It is just the different shifting mechanism that takes getting used to. And as Jethro says, the difference between a double and a triple. My fitter showed me the "trimming" to avoid the rubbing. On the small front ring I might have to trim it using the large left lever when shifting up to the hardest gears or by clicking the small lever when down shifting. I am not having a problem with that. So far the hardest thing is figuring out the right spot to go between the two chain rings.

Rain again today. Dang it is hard getting any riding in.

jethro56 

On my bike the Front deraileur trimmer is only good for one gear. Trimming the small sprocket isn't too bad. Trimming the big sprocket takes a deft touch.

goldfinch

Can you use all the gears? Even with trimming I can't really get the hardest gear (smallest cog) when I am on the small chain ring without rubbing. (So cross chaining still applies on a compact double?) I can get through all the gears on the large chain ring.

jethro56 

I can get 7 gears with either chainring. Yes cross chaining still applies. I have a cheaper crankset on my 4.5. Maybe that's why you can get a little wider range.

goldfinch

I am loving this bike. Very comfortable and I don't feel too stretched out on the hoods anymore. I still have to go in for my complete fitting when my pedals come it, but I don't think that much more will have to be adjusted. I rode my usual route (16 to 18 miles) with my cousin yesterday and charged up the hills that I was worried I could not do with the Madone gearing.

Thank you Trek for having such a nice bike in a very small package.

But.

My bikeshop said that my Madone was not going to be available in such a small size in 2012. That is why I jumped so quickly on buying one of the last three tiny Madone's. I just checked out Trek's 2012 models. No Madone WSD 4.7, it is now the 4.6 and the smallest is 47 cm, not the 43 I have. The Madone 4.5 WSD which doesn't have quite as nice components comes in a 44cm size but the top tube is nearly two centimeters longer than on my 2011 bike. It doesn't say if the wheels are 650s or 700s. I need and like the 650s.

I am very glad I got my bike when I did.

goldfinch

Well, this was the cure. After four bike shops and a new drive train the real fix was changing the kickstand mount. Hum. For the first time I have all the gears on the middle chain ring without any front derailleur rubbing.