jmccain

Maybe it's because I'm a high cadence spinner (which I intentionally worked on years ago) instead of a masher, but cycling slims my legs. Right now, they're cut with lots of surface vascularity, and I can ride a century with a high pace. But I still want to take another inch off my waist.

And I'm identifying a tape measure, not pants size.

We've really strayed from the original post, haven't we...

SkippyX

That was my doctor.

He's been a physician for 30 years and is a well-respected professor @ Baylor College of Medicine.

I think I'll stick with him.

He's absolutely right. I will always be a big guy. I am a big guy. I have always been a big guy. But, as I said earlier "big does not necessarily mean fat".

When I was a young man I was shaped like a V. I had big shoulders, a big chest and a narrow waist. At age 18 I weighed 203 pounds and had a 36 inch waist. I had worked on a dairy farm from age 13-18. By the time I was 18 I could toss wagon loads of thirty to fifty pound hay bales (depending on how the baler was set and how dry the hay was) 10 bales straight up. During the winter months I worked at both the farm and at Sears as a stock boy. I stacked full-sized refrigerators by myself, using no equipment. I was strong as an ox - and hopefully just a little brighter.

I rode a bicycle everywhere - except in the winter (when I would cross country ski to my friends houses). The football and wrestling coaches were both vying for me on their respective teams but I was more interested in making money than being involved in sports. Getting involved in extracurricular activities would mean I couldn't work on the farm after school - and I loved farm work.

When I got out of basic training (weeks of PT, marching and running everywhere and eating boiled/steamed food) I weighed 198. So, at 203 I carried around a few extra pounds, but not enough to worry about.

Today things are a bit different. I weigh alot more than I did when I was a kid. My goal is to get within about 10 pounds of where I was in high school. I figure that's a pretty good goal to shoot for. Heck, who knows? Hopefully I'll get there. If I do and say "Man, there's room for improvement. I think I'll step it up a bit" - Great! If I get there and say "Arrived. Whew." That's just as good. I'd be happy to simply get there.

You are right. A person should try to be as lean as possible, but one has to factor the way a person is built as well. When I was in the service, I was always on the verge of being put into the "fat boy program". According to the height/weight charts being used at the time by the Air Force, maximum allowable weight for my height was 205. I weighed 203 - the same thing I weighed in high school.

To give you an example, my buddy had skinny arms, skinny legs, virtually no shoulders, a sunken chest and an enormous beer belly - but he never had any trouble with the fat police in the service - because according to the charts he wasn't close to his max weight.

My son (20 y/o) is two inches taller than me and weighs something on the order of 165. He is a bean pole. He couldn't see 200 pounds if he did nothing but sit on a couch and eat twinkies for the next five years.

That's all my doctor was saying. "You should try to be as healthy as possible. You're doing great. Ignore all the numbers and charts that are out there, keep riding your bike, eat right and you'll do well."

Sounds like some pretty good advice to me.

corwin1968

Is this the group that has their nationals in Ponca City, OK? My hometown!

Mark Stone

That's half the fun of these threads . . .

Hoss Cartright

Well, I really started something didn't I?

(A) jmmcain, Just curious, how much do you weigh now?

(B) I may be a type A, but I also don't ever want to be like some of the type A bicycle riders in the club. My racing days are over, in fact I retired from motorcycle racing primarily because I disliked the type A personalities that permeated the sport. For me it was for fun and always was, the need to win any competition for some people just turns them into characters I would rather not be associated with. My nickname was "Hoss" because I was fat and could really ride, AND I won nationals. I won championships against quite a few thin guys over the years and witnessed a great deal of resentment and cruel things were said to me on many occasions, especially at trophy time.
So, maybe I am a type A- ?
In this bicycle club, no matter how strong I get, I am not going to be interested in riding with those fast guys (and gals) because they are mostly a bunch of people who are constantly challenging each other into faster and longer rides just to see who can out-ride the others. They are constantly "racing" each other for bragging rights. I enjoy the conversations with fellow baby boomers cruising along at 14~15 mph and doing 30 or 40 miles. This is a sport "I enjoy", not boot camp for the Army.. If I let this become the same thing as my motorcycle racing days, I will quit for the very same reasons.

(C) I know that at the 197 lbs that I got down to last fall, I could stick my hand up under my rib cage. I have a huge chest diameter as well as neck diameter. I wear a size 46 long dinner jacket! This is what fits my chest and arm length and it hangs on the front of me. I wear the production largest width eye glasses frame available (145), my motorcycle helmet size is XXL, hat size is 7 3/4.... So, firing my doctor isn't going to happen, and yes "vikings" do exist.
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Club ride notes
In our club I almost always ride "D" class.
"D" class rules - Not more than 14~15 mph average speed and not more than 25~30 miles on weeknight rides, sometimes 40~45 on Saturday or Sunday rides. (Sometimes I ride an "E" class ride on a weeknight and it is usually 18~20 miles and 13~14 mph average speed but these tend to be a little short and slow for me)

"C" class is 15~16 mph average speed.

As of this post, this is my week so far - 128 total miles
Saturday the 26th, Rode the 1973 P10-9 Paramount - 38 miles with the club, nine of us, some mild hills and mild wind. Average speed 14.8 mph
Monday the 28th, Rode the 1987 Cannondale Team Comp as it can haul two water bottles. (But it has a Brooks Professional saddle that is a little hard for my taste) - almost the same course as Saturday but in reverse. 34 miles with the club, about thirteen of us, mild hills and mild wind. Average speed 14.2 mph
Tuesday the 29th, Switched to the 1981 Schwinn Super LeTour as it can haul two water bottles and has an An-Atomica Titanico X saddle. - 28 miles, seven of us with two killer hills and two long down-hills. Got up to 34mph on one down-hill. Some head wind on the way out but a 21mph tailwind on the way back for about five or six miles. 14.8mph average speed. I huffed up the one steep hill and was third person over the top, two people walked-pushed up. - My lowest cogs are 28-39 on the vintage 1981 Schwinn Super LeTour so pulling big hills on that bike is some work. Feels good to climb while standing out of the saddle.
Wednesday the 30th, Been a while since I was last in the group to arrive back at the car park. Rode the Super LeTour again - 30 flat but windy miles, eighteen of us. About ten of the riders were from the faster "C" class which was a "show-and-go" and didn't have a ride leader or sweeper or planned route, so they tagged along on our slower planned "D" ride. Wicked head wind! I almost talked myself out of going. But I had already signed the waiver, not wanting to be a quitter, and no pain, no gain. Right? grrrr. I was the struggling/straggler on the way out and the "sweeper" was with me giving me encouragement and making sure I didn't drop out. (we will not leave anyone behind on club rides) At about the 8 mile mark, the group waited for me and Pat the sweeper to catch up. (We were about 1/4 mile back) I hate it when I'm last and having a person older than me helping me pull a head wind really puts a guy in his place. So, after this re-group we turned away from the wind and I was able to get into the pack and stay with them. But once we turned back into the wind at about the 20 mile mark, I dropped back little by little but this time with two others and the sweeper. We straggled-in about a mile behind the main group and as we are chatting while loading-up I'm apologizing for being the "anchor." Then they are all congratulating me! Seems that even though I was last, I finished with an average speed of 15.5mph which was dead center in the "C" class! So, I was struggling so much last night, feeling like a loser and didn't realize I was riding well out of my "D" class speed in hard wind! This was the very first time I have broken-out of the 14mph average speed on a club ride! And after the ride and even today I didn't hurt when I woke up. (Slept nine hours though)
BUT, I am not going to try to ride with the "C" class, there is an awful lot of testosterone in that bunch of riders, and huffing away all evening trying to keep up with them means that having a friendly conversation while riding is impossible.
Today the 31st, raining all afternoon and cold, all rides cancelled.

Hoss Cartright

I rode Observed Trials. Never rode there or anywhere in Oklahoma. Rode in Nebraska, Kansas, Texas, Colorado though.

Me in the good old days, August 1998 near Fairplay Colorado on Sheep Mountain.

Drag

Awesome post, OP! Very encouraging.

FWIW, I'm in a very large club with 500+ members and the average age is 54. I'm a youngin in the club at 42, but I'm wholly impressed by the atleticism of the members therein. Many of the club ride leaders are my parents' age (who do not ride) and they can readily kick my ass. It's a very humbling and insipiring.

Hoss Cartright

I did my first metric century on Saturday the 9th of June. I did it like it was nothing, even tried to talk myself out of it, but went anyway. Guess I'm stronger than I thought?

Here is the post link...

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ntury-tomorrow

sprince

Have any more pictures of the Paramounts?

Hoss Cartright

Sure do, follow this link to my Paramount gallery

sprince

Beautiful bikes.

JakiChan

Exactly.

When I started losing weight, back in February of 2011, they asked me to pick a goal weight. The BMI chart says "180", so that's what I picked. My doctor was "Uh, no." It turns out that if you've been big for a long time then things happen like your bones get denser. My ankles are not going to shrink in circumference, for example.

So we decided to give up on weight as a goal and instead set a body fat percentage, and I get dunked once a quarter. But I can say that now I'm at a point where I buy shirts based on how they fit in the chest - and that's not really going to get too much smaller. I thought I'd end up a L but I guess I'm an XL guy...

chasm54

The discussion on this thread about ideal weights is interesting, and more considered than we often get. Too often we hear things like "BMI is junk" from people who simply don't want to accept how overweight they really are.

OP, Adrien and others, I don't doubt you for a second. There are people who are simply very heavily built and whose weight at 10% body fat will be substantially higher than that of most people their height at 10% body fat. From what you say, you're undoubtedly among them. And many congratulations on your weight loss.

But Jmccain is right, for the most part. In the USA, and increasingly here in the UK, we've just got used to being fat and being around fat people. People look normal to us who would have been kindly described as "plump" or "well-covered" by my mother, and people who look overweight to us would have seemed enormous to her. I recently read a study which showed that 75% of UK parents of overweight kids were unable to diagnose the fact that their children were fat. That's a bit of a disaster as far as our future public health is concerned.

Speaking for myself, at 57 and 6'3" tall I am currently 91kilos/200lbs. I'm broad-shouldered, moderately muscular, very few people would call me lightly built. Non-cycling friends frequently comment on how lean I am and are disbelieving when I tell them I am still at least 14lbs overweight and very much the fat guy when it comes to bike racing. But it's true. I can still grab a handful of fat around my haunches and when I was last in top shape, aged about thirty, I was carrying more muscle than I do now but weighed 185 lbs. Oh, and don't believe those who say it's "natural" to put on weight as you get older. It's common, yes, but mainly because most people get less active but keep eating as a much or more than they did before.

So I agree that people should concentrate on health and fitness, and not get fixated about numbers. The "right" number for me will be different from the "right" number for you. But for most of us, that number is lower than one might expect based on what we see around us.

adrien

I totally agree this thread has gone very thoughtful and interesting. Also, BTW, thank you. I do think I could stand to lose more, though. That said, I worry a little bit (and is what was behind my doctor's comment) that we can become more fixated on weight than on health as a metric.In my case, the concern was that over-obsessing on shedding weight could become more harmful than a focus on fat / muscle balance. My goal is NOT to be a specific weight. It's to be lean, and have the muscle mass needed to do things I enjoy. In my case that is riding a lot (which requires significant muscle, and even upper body strength), some running, swimming, and things like gardening and the usual household stuff that comes with being the dad of an 8-year-old. And I want to live a long time, so BP, blood chemistry, circulation, and mental health all matter. It is a complex series of inputs, and a number on weight is one of them.

SkippyX

I agree - Chasm hit the nail on the head.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if at this stage of the game my doctor is just trying to be encouraging. Once I hit some plateau and am having a hard time dropping weight he might become all about the BMI and want me to go see a nutritionist. I have no idea.

As far as lean as possible goes, I don't know if I'm interested in being as lean as possible. I mean, let's face it, I didn't get to be this much overweight by eating salads and tofu. I still like to munch on a fair amount of stuff that's not good for the waistline.

My thoughts are (and my doc agrees with me) that we're talking about a lifestyle change, and it's best to approach such things incrementally. I've started an exercise regime. I'm being a little more careful about what I stuff down my gullet. I'm sure I'll be fine tuning things as time goes on.

Hoss Cartright

As the author of the ORIGINAL POST.

Simply said, I was pushing 300 pounds and walking with a cane, I've hit 199 last fall and after the winter now am 210. duhh! I have done this much!

This is still the lightest I've been in almost 40 years and my physical condition is better now than since my teen years. When I was 14~15 I was a biking mad-man, doing touring and constantly riding my high-end bikes. As my Grandfather was in the bike business and we had a shop, I had a free ride of any bike I wanted. Once I got that driver's license at 16, the bikes were over. 38 years later, here I am. It feels great to put that foot into that toe-clip on that Campagnolo pedal and push-off, swing a leg over the Paramount and pedal away with 18 other people for a 30 miler. Funny how all that stuff never goes away.

That Paramount feels the same today as it did when I was 15 and this is part of the Karma that is my state of mind and my current evolution. I look down at that Paramount frame, those chrome Nervex lugs, and that polished aluminum and sometimes I just get the biggest grin. I am re-living my youth and regaining my health. - This past Saturday I passed-up an annual antique auto show I haven't missed for a decade, and a chance to cruise around in my 1959 Impala.. Just to ride 62 hot and hilly miles with my bike club friends. Yes, I am different! I have changed.

Did 34 miles last evening at 15.5mph average speed with 18 club members.

Call me fat, whatever, I'm rocking and in my circle of friends they call me "their inspiration". I am surrounded by overweight out-of-shape chain-smoking couch potatoes and in my little prairie town I am now in the upper 10 percentile of fitness for sure. In my workplace, I am the only non-smoker!

This is the message; Anything is better than nothing, quitting all substances, getting in some kind of shape. Will a heart attack kill me? Who knows? I'm from Nordic genetics and my Grandfather lived to 85 and he was huge and lived on bacon and eggs. My male family history is huge muscular men. I have a step-brother and 57-year-old cousin who are thin, but both are heavy smokers and couch potatoes who live on beer and burgers. Otherwise, I am the thinnest man in the family any way you look. In fact many of my relatives are morbidly obese. Especially the women.

So for arguments sake, this is the forum for Clydesdales and as some have said, a lot of doctors probably see anything as better then nothing. My doctor told me that I am "! in 100" He told me that he preaches diet and exercise every day and nobody does it. For me to be almost three years into this and still maintaining and actually gaining strength is an anomaly in itself. (From his perspective, most dieters have long ago failed and regained the weight and often even more) And he is a heck of a nice guy. He is the one who suggested that I try 5k walkathons as I was complaining about how boring the treadmill and air-dyne were. I think he is 100% correct to tell me not to run or jog. He knows I was a motorcycle dirt racer, he knows I escaped knee injury by a stroke of luck, he knows about my bone spurs and spinal disc surgery. I think he is spot-on with how he suggests my training and direction of healthy living. Had I not inflamed the tendons in my foot in the fall of 2010, maybe the Paramounts would still be hanging on the wall? Would I still be walking 5 miles every day, entering walkathons? Who knows?

Just today at the LBS I was talking to my long time friend and mechanic. He commented about how some of the bike club members have been impressed with my gains. How strong I've become etc. I commented that thankfully I am one of the only dirt bike racers I know without having undergone knee surgery. Had I injured myself in all those off road racing years, I would not be biking. All the way around, I am a lucky guy.

Just today I bought tofu for the first time. Going to try and grill it. I have grown fond of Thai stir fry.

To preach these extremes about BMI and muscle mass to Clydesdales and Athenas is perhaps a little too much. If they can lose significant weight and get healthy they are making achievements that most overweight people cannot do. To expect them to be able to remove all that stretched skin and flab and turn themselves into "specimens" is a lot to ask.

To all of you like me who struggle for these goals, you have my utmost respect and support. Self image and pride in achievement be it 10 pounds, 100 pounds or 200 pounds lost, this is a difficult struggle. To also try to quit smoking, quit caffeine, quit fast-food, quit biting your nails, whatever! You are a winner anytime you can walk away from a bad habit and never look back. It is not about losing it, it is about keeping it off. This is the ultimate test. And my best wishes for success!

Sincerely,
A still "fat" 55-year-old guy who is 75 pounds lighter and riding and feeling like a 20-year-old

Me in August of 2010 at 225 pounds, (60 pounds lost)

adrien

Good on you, and thank you for the support. If we ever meet, I'll buy you a beer. Doesn't even have to be a "light".

JakiChan

I would say this - if you're going to fixate on numbers then fixate on a number more valuable than the scale. I wish I had gotten a body comp test before I started, but instead of trying to "guess" why my idea weight is I've chosen a "healthy" BF percentage. And I'll keep monitoring that. That way, if I can weight but my BF percentage is down then it's all good. but to put it bluntly - someone your height and weight probably can't comprehend being as heavy as I was, or losing over 200lbs. I think it's a completely different experience.

chasm54

I absolutely agree. I've never been more than about 240lbs. I can't imagine what it is like to have to lose over 200lbs, and have nothing but admiration for those who manage it.

And I also agree about monitoring something other than weight. Body fat percentage is ideal. Mine is still hovering around 20%, though. If it was under 15%, I wouldn't much care precisely what weight I was.