if you have a Trek and disc brakes, you are going to die!
#101
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Horsepucky. You don't follow the manual,it's your fault. Plain and simple.
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#102
Banned
It's not the company's fault you didn't use their product properly.
By 'manner' do you mean the manual? You're saying it doesn't matter what's in the manual? So when people don't follow the instructions for a product,it's the companies' fault?
Horsepucky. You don't follow the manual,it's your fault. Plain and simple.
By 'manner' do you mean the manual? You're saying it doesn't matter what's in the manual? So when people don't follow the instructions for a product,it's the companies' fault?
Horsepucky. You don't follow the manual,it's your fault. Plain and simple.
It increases the quality of life, but I guess that I can't expect you to understand that ...
#103
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It's not the company's fault you didn't use their product properly.
By 'manner' do you mean the manual? You're saying it doesn't matter what's in the manual? So when people don't follow the instructions for a product,it's the companies' fault?
Horsepucky. You don't follow the manual,it's your fault. Plain and simple.
By 'manner' do you mean the manual? You're saying it doesn't matter what's in the manual? So when people don't follow the instructions for a product,it's the companies' fault?
Horsepucky. You don't follow the manual,it's your fault. Plain and simple.
By analogy, let's leave the highly charged bicycle world and look back to the American Airlines Crash on Long Island, which was attributed to rudder failure. Airbus and the FAA blamed pilot error for overuse of the rudder at speed, and that was deemed the proximate cause. But it resulted in an order to Airbus to modify controls and install a warning system to prevent similar mistakes.
Likewise on bikes. Users have to read the manual and exercise due care, but that doesn't free makers to introduce new and hidden hazards --- even if they would come into play ONLY in combination with user error.
Assigning fault in the cases so far will be tricky because of shared responsibility, but the recall was 100% justified and correct once the issue was known. Other makers using similar QRs would be well advised to follow suit ASAP. OTOH- if I had one of these skewers on my bike and a freebie wasn't available, I wouldn't pay for a replacement because it's a non-issue for me (or anyone who uses the QR properly).
BTW- issues like this often turn on the question of foreseeability, and let's not kid ourselves about it. Failure of buyers to read manuals is a highly foreseeability event.
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FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
Last edited by FBinNY; 04-30-15 at 07:08 PM.
#104
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I'm done with you. I'll not respond to any more of your posts on this.
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#105
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Im surprised so many of you are up in arms defending Trek. It isn't really even about user error vs design flaw...they are willing to be the first to step up and provide new QRs and give you a gift card. Product selection not withstanding, I applaud Trek for their initiative.
#106
Banned
Dude,you're supposed to follow the instructions. The only people who were having issues were the ones who were doing something wrong. How freaking basic is it to close your skewer when installing a wheel?
I'm done with you. I'll not respond to any more of your posts on this.
I'm done with you. I'll not respond to any more of your posts on this.
#107
contiuniously variable
Because everyday bikes get flats more often than bikes used only once in awhile.
i have one bike with just quick releases and that means there's one less tool I have to carry.
There are all kinds of maintenance tasks that require or are made easier by removing a wheel. A quick release simplifies that process. "Everyday" bikes not only get more flats, they need maintenance more often than bikes that get occasional use.
FWIW: solid axles are actually weaker more often than not.
i have one bike with just quick releases and that means there's one less tool I have to carry.
There are all kinds of maintenance tasks that require or are made easier by removing a wheel. A quick release simplifies that process. "Everyday" bikes not only get more flats, they need maintenance more often than bikes that get occasional use.
FWIW: solid axles are actually weaker more often than not.
- Andy
#108
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Because everyday bikes get flats more often than bikes used only once in awhile.
i have one bike with just quick releases and that means there's one less tool I have to carry.
There are all kinds of maintenance tasks that require or are made easier by removing a wheel. A quick release simplifies that process. "Everyday" bikes not only get more flats, they need maintenance more often than bikes that get occasional use.
FWIW: solid axles are actually weaker more often than not.
i have one bike with just quick releases and that means there's one less tool I have to carry.
There are all kinds of maintenance tasks that require or are made easier by removing a wheel. A quick release simplifies that process. "Everyday" bikes not only get more flats, they need maintenance more often than bikes that get occasional use.
FWIW: solid axles are actually weaker more often than not.
#109
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#110
contiuniously variable
Sadly the one with the lug bit on it has gone MIA. A great excuse to buy a new socket wrench set? Yes, i think so.
I have one socket wrench for the bolt that holds on the light/fender, and i had one for the wheels. I also had an attachment socket for the rack/fender allan bolts and another one for the seat/handlebar but those went MIA at the same time.
- Andy
#111
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By everyday i meant garden variety, not "used every day". I use my bike most days. In a year of owning it the only flat i got was due to improper rim tape placement by the crap shop i got the bike from. I don't ride like a grannie either, so i dunno. If you're getting flats THAT often something's not right!
- Andy
- Andy
Bad things happen to ANY bike if you don't properly close a QR. Like, your wheel falling off.
#112
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By everyday i meant garden variety, not "used every day". I use my bike most days. In a year of owning it the only flat i got was due to improper rim tape placement by the crap shop i got the bike from. I don't ride like a grannie either, so i dunno. If you're getting flats THAT often something's not right!
- Andy
- Andy
I prefer solid nutted axles. There is nothing complicated or difficult about carrying and using a 15mm wrench to remove or install a wheel, its as simple as it gets. I average 340 days per year on a bike and I only get 1-2 flats per year. No need to remove wheels everyday.
Granted it wasn't a typical week but that's 3 wheel removals in the space of a few days.
Quick releases weren't designed for people who don't know how to use wrenches. They are convenience and speed feature that replaced the giant wing nuts that were common on racing bikes. People that can't use a wrench are unlikely to change a tire anyway.
There are many reasons why you may want nutted axles rather than quick releases but QRs do have their advantages. I've never had a flat at a convenient time. So the fastest, simplest, and easiest path to getting back on the road is what I want in those situations. Patching a tube is a simple process too, but I'd rather just use another tube and patch the bad one later.
In all honesty though, even just working in the garage, I prefer a quick release. If I don't need to dig out the wrench, all the better. Same with tire levers. I know how to use them, but I'd rather just use my hands if I can.
Last edited by tjspiel; 05-01-15 at 09:10 AM.
#113
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This. Plus easier for people who pull their front wheels off all the time for roof racks. Also MTBers who don't need an extra thing to carry when headed into the woods. And some folding bikes(Montague,Mezzo/Ori) that require removing or folding the front wheel.
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#114
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I want to hear from Acidgut. Or have Rolaids. About how bad bikes he don't own are so bad.
#115
contiuniously variable
I could see quick releases being a benefit on bikes where changing a tire is super important, like a road bike or a cyclocross or mountain bike. I don't see a benefit on hybrids, town bikes, or utility bikes. BSO don't really count, because no one should buy them for them to have the opportunity to get a flat.
- Andy
- Andy
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Transit I feel like you're opinion is based off, this recall. Statistically, more people have had problems with bolting their wheels on. So when you compare the two, a QR wins out by sheer numbers. I think it's stupid to want to have to carry more stuff to do the same thing. It's like saying, you don't like innovations.
#117
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Depends on how important it is you get to your job on time. I was military,and a shift supervisor,so I had to be there. Also,quite a few places around DC where you don't want to spend more time than you have to fixing a flat. There's also dealing with the weather;how much time do you want to spend not pedaling in 30°,and how many tools do you want to pull out in the rain?
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#118
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What problems ???...I never had a problem with nutted axles.
My 15mm wrench takes up less room then my spare tubes, tire levers and pump...
#119
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Depends on how important it is you get to your job on time. I was military,and a shift supervisor,so I had to be there. Also,quite a few places around DC where you don't want to spend more time than you have to fixing a flat. There's also dealing with the weather;how much time do you want to spend not pedaling in 30°,and how many tools do you want to pull out in the rain?
#120
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Nutted axles don't provide any particular advantage for me (though they might for other people) so they aren't worth the extra hassle (again for me).
Last edited by tjspiel; 05-02-15 at 09:02 PM.
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