rumrunn6

I get stopped a lot in my car. one night after a night shift (3 am?) I was driving on the highway in the left lane and no one else was on the road. I doubt I was speeding - just highway speed. anyway a copy pulls me over and he's very casual smoking a big ole cigar and he starts grilling me and asked how I was feeling. I told him tired and hes asked where you coming from? where you going ? where you work? he then said stay out of the left lane cuz its dangerous especially late at night, most accidents occur in the left lane. he didn't even check my license, etc. I think they ask those questions as part of a standard operating procedural script and sometimes those simple questions can be a way to catch someone in a lie which can lead to other inquiries and car searches for contraband, etc

hubcap

And unless the specific criminal on the loose is suspected to be on a bicycle, the officer should also be pulling over all the cars that go by.

mikewille

A day or two later there was a story in the paper about the "groper"
detailing a bunch of different incidents and his description. Apparently
the guy had a cast on his arm(that's the first thing the cops looked at,
my right arm)

old's'cool

"Probable Cause" should mean something. For it to mean something, citizens must continually assert their rights, lest they are eroded. If law enforcement stops and detains someone without probable cause, it behooves that person to push back as they see fit, within reason. If law enforcement persists in detament and arrest still without probable cause, it is "law enforcement" that is on the wrong side of the law, and, in an ideal world, justice will be served, in due course. Then there's reality...

Moozh

I have all sorts or reasons why I might be out and about in the middle of the night, unless I'm breaking a law why do you suppose it's okay that a person be stopped and compelled to inform law enforcement as to his activities? It's absolutely none of their business, unless I'm breaking a law why should I be stopped. If I'm breaking a law, by all means detain/arrest me but until such time I will not explain why I'm out, where I was or where I'm going. I will furnish my ID and if detained or bullied assert my right and insist that if I am to be detained, what are the charges else am I free to go. If you want to assert that "might is in fact right" and give me a hard time, then go ahead and arrest me...I dont care, I have relatives and close friends that are attorneys to fight and file complaint/suit if I am and can prove unlawful maltreatment..and it wont cost me a dime. I know my rights and will assert them..politely.

"If you get stopped and are not doing anything wrong, just answer politely"? no thanks, I'll be polite, I'm always polite but unless I'm in breach of the law, my business is my own!! You do realize that a police officer is not a judge or a citizens patron right? If I'm in breach of the law then by all means arrest me, else let me be.."citizen" actually means something..or it should.

genec

There are now Bikes on Shoulder signs in that area. Just another thing to acknowledge that bikes belong.

nice_marmot

If you've been stopped for no apparent reason, politely asking whether you are being detained and why is a really good way to get a cop to leave you alone. I wouldn't say "none of your business" or ask to see the policeman's ID, since it tends to get them upset.

nanter

I'm sorry, but your son is out of line stopping people without probable cause just because they happen to be out at a certain time of day. This is the United States of America - we don't have curfews here, and we have a rule of law that says that law enforcement does not have carte blanche to harass innocent citizenry without cause.

It is *not* his job to randomly stop people. It is his job to enforce the law to the best of his ability while obeying it himself. That he is too lazy to perform his job within its proscribed boundaries puts all of our civil liberties at risk.

hopperja

Nigal, just so you know, probable cause is the standard for arrest. Reasonable suspicion is the standard for detention. Reasonable suspicion is much less than probable cause.

bsd13

People should be thankful that the police are doing their job and asking questions. It's called being proactive and looking, yes looking for people who could potentially be criminals. OP, sorry, but being out riding a bike at 0330 is suspicious. It doesn't mean you've done something wrong, but it looks odd. The officer stopped you, asked some questions, determined you weren't a threat/criminal and let you go on your merry way. I can guarantee he didn't run out of questions, he ran out of reason to waste his time or yours.

nanter

Riding a bicycle at 3:30 is suspicious?! Is driving a car at 3:30 suspicious too? Let me guess, it's not. Or do you suggest that every single automobile out at 3:30 be stopped and its driver interrogated?

It's attitudes like these that have to change if people are going to accept bicycling as a legitimate alternative to the automobile for transportation. As a physician, I suppose being on the way home from shift work at 3:30 my behavior is suspicious. In a car, though, it wouldn't be suspicious.

It's pretty sad that this kind of auto-centrism is being displayed with such ignorance on a bicycle commuting forum.

bsd13

Over 200 years of case law says they (police) do indeed have the right to stop and ask people questions. Unless you're detained you have the right to walk away and refuse to answer.

bsd13

This has nothing to do with bicycling vs. driving. Don't turn it into a car/driver vs. bike/rider issue. It's not. This is about an officer who saw something that seemed out of place to him and he did his job and investigated it. It really is as simple as that. The cop did exactly what we, the general public, pay him to do.

If the same cop tomorrow night were to let someone ride on by without saying a word and then that rider murdered someone you'd ask "Where the hell were the cops and why the hell weren't they doing their job?!"

As far as not being suspicious at 0330 in a car... Depends where you are and what you're doing. I've been pulled over at 0200 and asked a few questions. Guess what... I answered and went on my way. It took 5 minutes of my time. Absolutely painless, and I daresay I'm the rule and NOT the exception when it comes to being stopped by the police.

hopperja

Nanter,

1- you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Police need probable cause to arrest you. They only need reasonable suspicion to detain you.

2- some cities do have curfews for juveniles. That means police can detain anyone who is out after curfew because they look like they could be a juvenile.

3- you weren't there so you don't have any basis to criticize if the stop was justified. You only know one side of the story. In case you weren't aware, every story has two sides.

And the rest of you who think this was an unwarranted detention... don't complain today about the officer doing his job and then complain tomorrow because he didn't want to help you when you suddenly find yourself a victim.

bsd13

Nothing wrong with asking a cop for ID. The trick is asking for it at the appropriate time. That is to say when they have concluded their business with you not the very moment you lay eyes on them.

prathmann

He really pulls over every single car he sees on the road after 3am?

If someone is breaking into cars/homes it seems far more likely that their 'getaway' vehicle is a car/truck rather than a bike. Sure there have been a few well-publicized cases of some burglar or bank robber who took off on a bike. But the reason they've been well-publicized is because it's so unusual and therefore considered newsworthy.

Now if the officer in the original post had some specific reason to suspect that there was a bicyclist (or someone fitting the OPs description) in the area who had committed a crime, then the stop would be justified. But profiling based on just being different and stopping someone with no evidence of wrong-doing is not justifiable.

TuckamoreDew

I live close to one of the sin strips in my city and the small time dealers and pimps often ride around at night doing their rounds on bicycles. No licence plates, you see. I've often expected the cops to stop me but they never have. Mostly, these guys are easy to spot. For one thing, none of them ever seem to wear bike helmets.

hopperja

And you know this how? I suppose you've read every case submitted to the prosecutor's office in that jurisdiction and know from that experience that bicycles are an unusual getaway...

You see, therein lies the problem. People get on these boards and say things as if they're experts when what they think they know about the topic at hand is speculation at best. If you are a law-abiding citizen and really knew what was happening in your community, you wouldn't think twice about a police officer detaining you and asking a few questions.

hopperja

Right, because stopping him for an equipment or moving violation (ie, a traffic stop, which is usually not criminal) wouldn't be justified. Tell that to the next police officer who stops you and see how far that gets you.

prathmann

Because I've seen them reported in the 'Odd News of the Day' section of news reports.

Note that my comment above explicitly refers to the situation *in the Original Post* where there was no mention by the officer of any equipment violation or any traffic violation of any kind by the cyclist. The officer just asked him a bunch of questions and then sent him on his way. That kind of questioning is justified if the officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed and that the individual questioned might have some involvement.

cubs1982

That's pretty discrimatory to say that people out after 3 are generally up to no good. Obviously without knowing whether there was probable cause in this case it is hard (perhaps there was a report of break-in or something of that nature). However, as someone who works third shift, I would find it incredibly offensive to be pulled over merely by virtue of the hours that I keep.

BigDaddyPete

I have been pulled over once during my 5+ years commuting. It was because rear blinky had fallen off and I hadn't noticed. Cop informed me of this, and then put his lights on, and paced me from about 30 yds back through an incredibly dark stretch of my commute until I was safely home. I gots no issues.

Nigal

OK, I can agree with that. So swap out those terms and it still comes up the same. Simply being out at 3am is not enough reason to detain and question someone.

azesty

I have been commuting for a number of years in Australia (7 years in the last 10 I was there) and now one year in China. I have never been stopped by a cop.

I have, like most Chinese, ridden on the wrong side of the road at night sans lights and helmet past cops. The only surprise they register is that I am not Chinese.

Very few cops here have any English, though I did have my bag searched one day in the main square by two cops, one in uniform, the other in full SWAT gear with automatic weapon (a Kalashnikov variant), sidearm, flack jacket, knee and elbow pads etc. The uniform guy had excellent English. The first question gave me cause for concern, the conversation went something like this:

Cop: Hello sir.
Me: Hi.
Cop: Do you have your passport with you?
Me: Ah, no. Its in my friends apartment where I am staying. (I was in trouble now, as it is required that you carry it, but nobody in the expat community does).
Cop: Do you mind if I have a look in your bag sir?
Me: Not at all.

I dropped to one knee as I took my bag off my back and put it on the ground. I pulled the zip open and showed him a nearly empty bag.

Cop: Thank you very much, you can go now.

It was, unknown to me, some anniversery of some problem. There was a chance that I had a banner or something in my bag. Once it was established that I didnt they lost interest in me.

Not a nice situation though. In another country, when a guy with an automatic weapon asks to search your bag, you comply.

z

Nigal

Hey, why stop there. If stopping and questioning people without cause is good police work let's knock on a few doors and randomly search houses. Especially high crime, poorer neighborhoods. You never know what they may have in their.