PaulRivers

I have to admit I'm a little lazy in reading that. But they just throw out that they can "measure efficiency".

How do they measure the efficiency of your leg muscles, or the effects of the different techniques on your respiratory or circulation system?

It sounds like they simply don't, and we have to take their word at it that they know what they're doing when they "measure efficiency".

BarracksSi

I certainly like giving my pushing muscles a break now and then, too.

Seattle Forrest

Yeah, me too. It's nice to "rest" while you're powering yourself forward.

I don't know the details, either, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if this were true. People can measure the speed you rotate mental images; efficiency of pushing something with your legs seems easy by comparison.

cooker

From the forces exerted on the pedals with each revolution they measured how much cycling work they did, and from their oxygen consumption they measured how much physical work they did to acheive it.

apricissimus 

My hunch is that there really is some performance gain in some situations, but regardless, even if there weren't, I enjoy riding with clipless pedals. Being attached to the bike is just feels better to me.

steve0257

I don't use clipless, but it is more mind set than any worry about efficiency, speed, or power. The day I HAVE to wear special clothes to ride is the day I quit riding.

genec

I prefer walking barefoot... but reality rears it's ugly head often when I encounter "no shirt, no shoes, no service." Wearing shoes are "special clothes" in my mind. So I just choose to put on shoes that have cleats.

KrisPistofferson

I guess theoretically it would increase your speed a little bit since you are pulling up as well as pushing down, but you still have to wear shoes that are pretty much good for nothing else but cycling. For a commuter I would recommend clipless pedals that also have a platform on them (like the Crankbrothers Mallet, for example,) because from my personal experience, as cool as Eggbeaters or whatever look, sometimes you just want to wear sandals to the grocery. Best of both worlds.

aley

For me, the chief advantage of clipless is getting to wear the shoes that go with them. I have foot problems, and benefit dramatically from a very rigid shoe. Cycling in regular shoes on platform pedals would leave me walking painfully for a day or two, but riding with carbon fiber soles lets me spread the force of my pedal stroke around a lot more of my foot and avoid all the pain.

Besides, I'm already changing out of my lycra (hey, I don't want to get my work clothes all sweaty, and I love to ride hard), so my shoes are off anyway. It's not a big deal to just put on my work loafers when I'm dressed.

Are they more efficient or faster? Probably a little bit for me, but it's not an extreme difference.

crawdaddio

I started pulling my dog to work with me in a trailer this spring. I have always used clips/straps or powergrips in the past. My legs were getting very sore from pulling the extra 80 or so pounds. So I finally went and bought some clipless pedals and MTB style shoes, and I can say without a doubt that my stroke/cadence has become way more efficient. I ride a singlespeed steamroller and have no more difficulty pulling the weight on my commute.

I have ridden for years and never bought into clipless pedals, I thought they would be a hassle. I have now outfitted all of my bikes with the 'campus pedals'. I am entirely convinced that they just work better, you get more power with less effort, and it feels really smooth to be connected to the bike. I bought MTB style shoes with the recessed cleats and walk around the city in them quite comfortably.

I think every serious cyclist should at least TRY it. Buy from Performance bike, with their unconditional return policy, and simply return them if you hate it.

dscheidt

Read the papers. Every decent scientific paper (The actual paper, as published in a journal, not the abstract, not the PR about it, not some news story about it) covers the apparatus used to make measurements. There are various ways of instrumenting pedals, and they're available on the commercial market. O-tec make some that are commonly used, they use a pair of hall effect sensors orthogonal to each other, which allows force to be measured One reason it's widely used is that it attaches between crank and pedal, allowing any pedal to be used. (Which lets the researchers let their subjects provide their usual pedals and shoes.)


Do you fail to understand the difference between failing to lift up and pressing down? As the crank comes up, it will lift the leg attached to it, even if that leg isn't pushing down on it.

See, for instance, Effects of Pedal Type and Pull-Up Action during Cycling

G. Mornieux1, B. Stapelfeldt, A. Gollhofer1, A. Belli

Int J Sports Med 2008; 29(10): 817-822
DOI: 10.1055/s-2008-1038374

which shows there's no gain in non-maximal[1] effort. One of their test modes was done showing the cyclist a display giving real-time feedback of whether they were actually pulling up on the upstroke or not. What's notable about that is that the professional cyclists involved had a *bigger* increase in efficiency doing that test than the non-pros (who had no experience with clipless pedals before hte study). That tells the reader that professional cyclists don't, really, despite what's said, actually pull up on the pedals in normal use, but that relatively inexperienced clipless riders do. And it further shows that lifting on the upstroke increases the amount of oxygen used per watt of output, *reducing* the net efficiency of the rider.

[1] no one claims that pedals don't matter if you're racing. well, I'm certainly not. Just that they're not a magical make you faster device.

BarracksSi

Downward pressure is downward pressure. Whether it's dead weight or leg muscles pushing down, it's downward pressure, and this is on the back of the pedal stroke -- which does not contribute to forward motion at all.

How much simpler does it need to be?

FrenchFit 

Here's one. Seriously, I use them for spin class and long rides. Otherwise, they just strike me as a nuisance, power grips accompsh the same thing and you can wear whatever. I do think you stroke is smoother and cadence is higher using clipless, but if your not racing or on a century, why do you care? For city or around the burbs riding, they are just a nuisance.

cooker

It is simple. Your leg has mass. Some force has to lift that mass on the upstroke. That force could come from the muscles in the leg itself, or from the pedal, powered by the muscles in your other leg. As long as the back leg doesn't actively resist, it is exactly the same amount of work for you to pull the leg up, or use the other leg to push it up.

BarracksSi

^^^ Yeah, but as long as you're not pulling up with the back leg, it's working against you. Since an unclipped foot will leave the pedal unless you keep it pressed down, you'll always be pushing with backwards force on the crank -- and that's the opposite of going forward.

cooker

Absolutely not. Whether you pull it up or push it up, it takes the same amount of work.

BarracksSi

And that "work" either helps propel you forward or it doesn't.

Pushing up your back leg by using your front leg is counterproductive.

cooker

Imagine a simplified situation where the pedals are at 3 o'clock/9 o'clock, and where the back leg is limp and the front leg is pushing down with 100 watts of power. Perhaps 90 watts of that power is actually driving the bike forward and the other 10 watts is pushing the limp back leg up.

Now a second situation where the back leg is is pulling up on the pedal with 30 watts of power and and the front leg is pushing down with 60 watts. You are still generating 90 watts to drive the bike. However, you must really be expending 40 watts with your back leg: 10 to lift the leg, and 30 to pull on the pedal. So you are still expending a total of 100 watts.

BarracksSi

So you mean that it's better to waste more effort in the front leg to lift a limp back leg?

cooker

According to some research, yes.

canyoneagle

The main thing I see being overlooked here is that the "work" (wattage) of the active rear leg will be accommodated by a different muscle group, thereby balancing the workload better. The muscles utilized to push the pedal down are taxed less with each stroke. You've kind of demonstrated the point for "uplift" advocates with your wattage example.

cooker

That's true. If you only push down and never pull up, or never push forward and back at the top and bottom of the stroke, you may get muscle fatigue. So just like it's a good idea to change hand positions or get out of the saddle periodically, it's probably a good idea to vary your pedal stroke. However the most oxygen efficient part of the pedal stroke is the downstroke.

canyoneagle

Spot on there!

John Coloccia

I actively lift my rising leg if for no other reason than to reduce the stress on my knees. If I'm going to push down with X amount of force, I want all of that to go into making the bike go forward. I can't see having to choose between putting more stress on my knees or slowing down when I can go just as fast by lifting the leg on the upstroke and pushing with less force on the downstroke. It just seems to tax my legs less all around, and it's almost like my muscles get a little mini recovery on every revolution. I'm just a newbie so I don't know about efficiency or any of that jazz but I do know what feels good and what hurts!

Anyhow, I don't need maximum efficiency. I'm trying to shed some pounds so a bit of inefficiency may do me good...

BarracksSi

So, what are we really talking about here -- efficiency or fatigue?