undisputed83

I'm thinking about going down to my bike shop later to replace my 700x35's with 700x23's. The 23's I'm about to put on are called "Survivors," which supposedly have two extra layers of rubber on them for extra durability.


My bike is a cyclocross. I don't really use it on trails at all, I just commute with it. I feel pretty good about it, because I like to ride at a slightly faster pace, and I sometimes have to ride distances of up to 15 miles as my bike is my only mode of transportation. So good move or bad move?

rolandofeld

I'm interested in the response to this too since I'm running smaller tires than most people seem to run on my commuter. Doesn't seem to come up much.

modernjess

IMHO - good move. You said you like to ride faster, and it's on roads. I don't have any experience with those particular tires but they also are available in a 25c and 28c. I've been riding 25c's at 110psi on my CC commuter for years. Conti Ultra Gator skins. Fast, durable, not super plush but I don't care.

Wanderer

The difference between a 23 and a 28 is less than 1/4". You will probably find the 28 every bit as fast, but immeasurably better in comfort...... the 28 being almost 1 1/8" wide.

What kind of 35s were you running? i find my Schwalbe Marathon Supremes excellent in durability, roll, and fast to spin up. A 35 is only 1 3/8".

Have you also experimented with pressures? Sometimes a couple pounds can make a huge difference in roll.

CCrew

+1. The 23 will be much harsher on the ride quality while not noticeably faster on speeds than a 28.

sudo bike

Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with my 35's. I'm also no speed demon, though. I tend to chug along at 18mph. I've ridden a friend's road bike with 23's and it was waaaay too harsh for me. Especially on a longer ride. For me personally, anything over 10 or 12 miles, I'd rather have the comfort over the few extra mph's. It all depends on what you value more; if you love rocketing down the road, go for it!

bhop

Are you changing wheels too? If you're running 35's now, dropping to a 23 might be a bit much for your current wheels, as far as sizing. At least that's the advice I got when I changed to more narrow tires myself.

As far as if it's a good move, I think so. I noticed a huge difference between my old 32 and new 28 tires. I do notice a slight difference between my 25's on my other bike too, but not so much..

prathmann

I have one bike on which I use 23 or 25mm tires (frame doesn't have clearance for anything wider) and I have 35mm tires on my touring bike. Can't say that I notice any significant difference in speed between the two. On our faster club rides I can keep up with the same group on either bike. I'm sure it would matter if racing where even a small difference can be critical, especially when sprinting out of a sharp turn. But for regular riding and commuting I'd just as soon have the extra versatility of somewhat wider tires.

canyoneagle

Bad move to go all the way to 23's unless you are riding on perfect pavement, IMO.
As has been said, 28's are probably a better choice, as they offer speed with MUCH more comfort than the 23's can offer.

lonesomesteve

Well, it's a good move if it makes you happy. But understand that narrower tires are not necessarily faster, especially if you ride in the real world where road surfaces are imperfect. On a rough chip seal surface, many people believe a higher volume tire with lower pressure "floats" better over the irregular surface and ends up being faster. If you ride on smooth regular surfaces like a velodrome, then the narrower tires would probably be slightly faster. Also, narrower tires tend to flat more frequently (all else being equal). Personally I ride much faster when I'm not fixing flats. Overall, while narrower tires may be slightly faster in some very specific situations, they are unquestionably less comfortable in all situations.

waynesworld

It would be a bad move for me. I have a nasty habit of going over the handlebars with skinny tires.

It really depends on your road conditions, and skills. Lots of people do it, but I cannot imagine running 23s on the streets around here. Certainly not with my limited skills.

BTW, when you say "survivors", are you referring to the Serfas tires? Serfas makes some models of their tires in the regular series, and also in the Survivor series, which, as you noted, is thicker and has more layers. I just today ordered a set of Serfas Survivor Drifters in 26x1.5 for a 1995 Trek 850 that I acquired Sunday. Can't wait to see what they're like.

Staggerwing

Sensitive question. How big are you? Also, what are your roads like?

Really, a 23 is best for smooth surfaces and smaller (say roughly sub-175lb) riders.

I'm right around 200lbs, and on our rough city streets, 28s work well for me, on a Crosshairs, which is also a cyclocross frame. Continental Ultra Gatorskins ($40 in steel bead, $50 in kevlar) and Panaracer T-Servs ($36 kevlar bead w/o reflective stripe, $40 kevlar bead w reflective stipe) would be good choices. Try 95-100psi back and 90-95psi front to start. Keep 'em properly inflated and they won't hold you back in any way, shape or form. The 28s will also give you plenty of room to mount some fenders, if you don't already have them.

PaulRivers

The question I need an answer to before answering - how much do you weigh?

If I remember correctly, nearly all wheels allow you to use 25c tires, but many wheels (especially the kind that are wide enough for 35c tires) support 25c as their smallest size. So you might not want to risk it with 23c.

Tire compounds also make a difference in rolling resistance - if it was me (and I still had some money I was willing to spend), I would put on a pair of Continental 4 Seasons. It's a racy, but puncture resistant ("training") tire - at least I've read good things about them and they're my next target tire for my 2nd bike. But - they're definitely expensive.

undisputed83

I weigh roughly 155lbs (I was 194 four months ago), and I'm currently running Ksyrium Elite wheels. And I did go with 23's. I had a slight problem with seating the tire... because the bottom part of the tire that tucks into the wheel was sitting on the tube, and I couldn't get the tube pushed up into the tire so the tire could be seated properly... I would have used a tire lever... but my dog destroyed it earlier lol... But I was able to fix it with the cunning use of a spoon.

irclean

Quote of the day!

Edit: I hope you don't mind if I use your quote as my sig line for awhile!

lonesomesteve

No problem.

B. Carfree

A few months ago someone on the tandem forum said that it had been determined (I'm not sure who did the determining or how) that he saved 7 watts per wheel by switching from 700X25 to 23. You don't have the weight of a tandem, but that is a lot of power loss for a small width difference. If it is speed you are after it sounds like a good move. I'm an old Clydesdale, so I roll my heavy Schwalbe marathons just to keep the road debris (much of it put down by our local government) from giving me flats.

BTW, I once dropped from 194 to 155 lbs, but that was 30 years ago when I got a near-fatal Staph. infection. I'm glad yours seems to be from better causes.

whitecat

35C is plenty rough for me. Maye, and just maybe I would use 32C if I had good roads which I don't. And as for 23, I would not even think about it. You asked, here's my opinion.

Kojak

I've got 25s on my commuter, and they are "cushy" relative to the 23s that I ride on my racing bikes. You wouldn't think that 2mm would make that much difference, but it does. Since the weather has finally turned sunny, I've been riding the race bike to work, and the difference is astounding.

Shorter answer, go with a 25 or a 28, it'll be a much nicer ride.

lonesomesteve

I love quotes like that. So assuming it's true (a huge assumption), and assuming there is no other downside to switching from 25cm to 23cm tires (another huge assumption), 7 watts per wheel works out to about 42 seconds over a 40 km time trial travelling at 30 mph. Or if I could do my 8 mile commute at 30 mph, I'd get to work 8 seconds earler.

Ok, now back in the real world on the COMMUTING FORUM where we're dealing with stop signs, red lights, broken beer bottles, traffic, the aero effect of our messenger bags and panniers, and a few hundred other more significant variables, I'm thinking I'll stick with practical tires that are comfortable and don't get flats too often.

vautrain

Well, since you've switched, what do you think of the ride quality?

For me, it would be a bad move. The ride quality of 23's is so harsh, all other things equal. On my road bike, fine, but for my commuter, no. I run 32's (Panaracer Pasela Tourguard) on my commuter, and would have gone wider if I'd thought much harder about it when I bought the tires.

I assume you were replacing 35's that were knobby cx tires. You probably would have gotten your desired result (a smoother, faster ride) with smoother touring/hybrid tires in 28-35, and still retained the better ride quality.