oneeyedhobbit

I've rode through most of the last two winters on my slicks. It was harrowing, and at times forced me to take the bus (fresh snow, lots of ice). I decided to invest in studded tires. The LBS steered me towards the Nokian A10s. They seem to be a solid choice as an urban commuter, though I'm entertaining thoughts of asking to swap to the W106s (comments?).

Both Peter White's website and Nokians literature suggest that one avoid "aggressive" riding to prolong stud life. What does this actually mean? I ride fixed, so the LBS said definitely don't skid. Does this otherwise mean "avoid potholes and don't jump curbs?" Or is this an admonishment against speed on plowed roads? I like to spin and go fast, so I'm hoping that isn't the case, but I have zero experience with studs, so any advice would be great.

Edit: This might be better served in the winter forum. It probably is, but as an everyday bike commuter this was my first instinct. Mea culpa, and feel free (read: please do) move if I'd get better responses.

TL;DR: A10s vs. W106 for an urban commuter; can I still go fastish on clean roads?

modernjess

I ride the W106's, as to your first question, I have no experience with the A10's but they do look a lot faster in the rolling department, and on a fixie they might be the right choice for that reason alone. But I'm not sure that's enough stud coverage for my typical season. We get a lot of ice and snow and I know my 106s save my ass daily. They are a ***** to push though, they are heavy, lots of drag. Fastish is not a word I would use to describe them. I rode them SS the first few years and it was hard f'n work. You do get used to it, you also get used to not crashing on ice. The Schwalbe marathon winters look like a cross between the two, you might want to look at them as well. A buddy of mine rides them and seems to complain less than I do about rolling resistance. FWIW.

Not sure what they mean by aggressive riding on bare roads, No skidding is a start. Otherwise, anything that wears the edges of the knobs I guess more than riding in a fairly strait line most of the time, whatever that means. Mine are in the 5th year, not lost a stud yet, tread still looks really good, I'm sure I'll get several more years out of them. I wouldnt worry too much about it. They're tires, You gotta ride on something, and you gotta have fun too.

oneeyedhobbit

I note you also ride in Minneapolis, so thanks much for the firsthand advice! To put what you said in context, what kind of riding do you typically do? My goal is to skip only the most brutal (20 below and beyond) days. Usually I'm riding from S Minneapolis to the U of M area, so I take Bryant up to the Greenway and the Hiawatha Trail. Minneapolis is pretty good about keeping the greenway plowed and salted, so I think the Hub was on to something with steering me towards the A10s. My natural inclination is to worry that the studs are too far out to the sides, but Peter White's site suggests that isn't actually such a bad thing for mostly plowed roads, as the main source of ice-crashing is lateral movement. This might be one of those things I have to learn from experience.

I don't really care about my actual speed as long as I can enjoy spinning my cranks when the roads are amenable. It was a bit of a shock experiencing the rotational inertia I've heard speak of make its presence known, but the ride home was pleasant and took maybe 10 mins longer than usual. As a fringe benefit, I felt like I was pedaling a two-wheeled lunar rover, so that was something.

ShimmerFade

Just think about it logically ..what would wear down the studs? Any type of skidding, and I could imagine that a strong/fast start in a lower gear could also cause some some damage. I'm glad studs aren't to crucial where I am because I already have 7 different tires for my MTB and 4 for my commuter lol.

Blues Frog

I have the 106s on rear and Schwalbe Winter 240s on the front. I first used self made studded tires. Then on changing to a Trek 520, different size tires, I went with the winter tires. Slower than smooth tread, DUH. I like not rolling around on the ice and snow in front of cagers. YMMV

tsl

Under break-in, it just means no skid-stops, control wheelspin (not likely a problem with fixed) and forget carving corners. In fact, forget carving corners until spring.

In regular use, it's a lot like AWD in cars. People buy AWD thinking it will turn icy roads to dry pavement and then they drive as aggressively in January as they do in July. This explains all the SUVs you see rolled over in the expressway median. You seldom see a 2WD rolled over in the ditch. It's always 4WD and AWD drivers who think it's some sort of magic that exempts them from the laws of physics.

Same thing on bikes. Studded tires don't turn January into July. The best they can do is make it somewhat safer to ride in bad conditions. Even with studs, ride like you're in the TdF, and you'll go down.

vtjim

^^^ What he said. Just don't do anything that will grind the studs or rip them out of the rubber.

Studs don't let you ride normally on ice. They let you ride cautiously. That said, I've never gone down on ice with studded tires. I love riding with them.

thdave

I wouldn't worry about the caution notes--studded tires slow you down enough that you can't be aggressive.

Yet I still love them, as it's a joy to ride in the snow/ice.

alan s 

Studded tires like Schwalbe Marathon Winters don't slow you down that much, 1-2 mph at full inflation. The only things to watch for are hard cornering and offroad riding. Don't push them too hard or studs may come out.

I've lost six studs over the last three years on my current set of MWs, and finally got around to replacing the studs last week. Four on one tire and two on the other, and all on the outside row of studs. I tend to ride pretty aggressively (except on ice) and have a couple unpaved areas on my commute, so the loss of some studs is expected.

Scheherezade 

The A10s have a pretty low stud count. If you can fit them on your bike, I really love my Marathon Winter 700x35 tires for Minneapolis winters. I'd wager the flat protection is a bit better too. You can often pick them up at Niagara Cycle Works for $110ish a pair.

HardyWeinberg

If you can put 35mm tires in (as you imply by considering w106s) I would go w/ marathon winters which have a less aggressive tread (unless you have enough snow that you actually want a more aggressive tread). I tried the nokian a10s and the studs do their job on ice pretty much but the rubber was slippery, I would lose traction going over thermoplastic street markings which freaked me out since my regular non-studded schwalbes grab onto that stuff fine even in the rain.

I thought the rule of thumb was to keep it slow (<15mph?) over the first 25 miles to firmly seat the studs in the tires, then you were good to go however conditions permit. I've been riding studded tires for ~5 winters and have lost a grand total of one stud.

You can buy nokian replacement studs which supposedly fit into schwalbe tires.

fietsbob

Not living in MN, [so don't have to use them, but episodically]
and plodding along when the roads have iced up in spots, out here,
the Mount and Ground W studded tires I got in the 90's, still have all their studs ..

The studs are tungsten carbide steel, like auto tires use.

modernjess

Similar conditions for the most part. A typical commute I'm on the streets about 25%, and Cedar lake path for about 75% 15 miles RT. I have other routes as well and will take them if the conditions are better on the roads than they are on the path. They plow the path generally better than the streets but it has icy sections that never melt until late spring and the freeze thaw cycles in the spring can mean very long stretches of ice. At the same time the roads can be dry. Generally there is enough loose snow in a typical winter to warrant the more aggressive tread of the 106's and light snows (under 2") don't always get cleared thanks to budget tightening. But that said the A10's and the Schwalbe Marathons Winters weren't an option a few years ago when I bought these. So I can recommend the 106's for sure, but that doesn't mean you won't do well with the A10's, I think you will.

Kojak

Define "Aggressive" Riding

Skidding, sliding, hard cornering or hard braking.

The main reason one needs to avoid this type of riding when you first install studded tires is that the studs need time and pressure to seat properly.
If you push your tires too hard prior to properly seating your studs, they are much more likely to lose some of the studs, which defeats the purpose
of buying a studed tire. And yes, the studs are made of tungsten but skidding around on concrete or asphalt will wear them down more quickly.

oneeyedhobbit

Thanks for the input all. I might try to swap to w106s if they fit my bike. Not a lot of clearance on my fork, which was what had me asking about a10s/32 studded tires anyway. Yes, obviously there is a marked difference in weight and rolling resistance between my gatorskins and Nokians. I felt it climbing and riding up-tempo on the ride home from work after classes. On the other hand, I feel like the difference between a10s and 106s will be small. The A10s just don't look all that competent riding on a snow/ice covered bike path. Maybe riding them would teach me that this assumption is incorrect, but I feel like a marginal increase in rolling resistance for added insurance on ice/snowy terrain would be an ok trade-off.

Plus I'll be super ******** fast come spring.

rumrunn6

I was very happy with marathon winters

scroca

Aside from wearing down the studs, you are best advised not to do anything that will likely tear them out, like skidding.

And a note about aggressive cornering: Studs won't stop you from wiping out, just prevent it when you ride reasonably. You can corner hard enough to go down even with studs.

Read what Peter White says about it.