Leebo

Um , not a safety hazard. Please ride a mile in my pedals before passing judgement. Plenty of riders here have bright lights and bright blinking lights. Just look away from them like you would for any passing vehicle. And yes I worry about the distracted drivers of said cars. If others users see me, my job is done. I guessing MN has sane and reasonable drivers, not too many here. I have side lights, wheel lights ( very effective showing wheel movement), x-mas lights, etc. I'm like friggin' time square

MNTC

This has come up in other threads and I suggest abandoning your attempt to debate PaulRivers. He is apparently extremely photosensitive and in other threads has gone so far as to state he would prefer cyclists ride without adequate lighting of roads or trails, around here (I am in the same area as him) potholes and other pavement faults are extremely common due to MN's yearly extreme temperature swings and freeze-thaw cycles.

walrus1

I used to work in tech theater in lighting and here was what I was told by my tech director. Bright lights of a specific rapid and related flash rate can cause seizures. I have yet to come across a bike light that falls in that frequency. In fact many emergency vehicle lint systems fall closer to that range. Any bike light that caused seizures would be recalled pretty quickly.

You met a crazy person who is too easily distracted and probably shouldn't be driving.

esmith2039

The only I can see if you have the lights pointed right in their eye's.. I've seen that on a couple cyclists around here. Shouldn't be any different that cars. I keep mine pointed down so they hit the payment 6-10ft in front of the bike.

kickstart

Why are you so set against having effective lighting that doesn't have a negative impact on others? Is that too much to ask? Do you understand the difference between effective and excessive?

PaulRivers

Lol, well if you're lit up like a christmas tree, I really don't have a problem with that. No one has driven past a christmas tree and gone "ah! I can't see! It's to bright and blinking!".

I've continued to say that reasonably powered blinking lights are good for visibility. But there's a difference between being seen, and an attitude that you being seen is more important than other people's safety and more important than any other vehicle on the road being seen, that's where I think it gets absurd.

PaulRivers

I've never said I would prefer cyclists ride without adequate lighting on roads or trails. I've said I'm a big fan of shaped beam headlights - though more because you can see better and further than with the round models, secondarily because it doesn't get into people's faces, though that's still a secondary consideration compared to being able to see the road better and further. Even then though, you have to put out a *lot* of light on a road to be problem - which I've run into occassionally.

If you want to put a car headlight on your bike, that's not problem with me, but a car headlight has a shaped beam with a cutoff.

It's the idea of putting overly bright, blinking/flashing/designed to be annoyingly eye catching lights that's my problem. Or the endless series of absurd excuses where people pretend their bike lights are nowhere near car lights in output when clearly they are.

You want to put 1500 lumens on the road in a shaped beam like the low lamps on a car headlight? Great! Specialized is coming out with a new light that puts out 1200 lumens (I think) that claims to do that. Planning on buying one if it's actually a shaped beam (and not just marketing fluff). You want to put 1500 lumens of bright, wide, blinking light on the road at night so you can be see but others have more trouble seeing? That's what I have an issue with. Or rear lights that shine into the windshield of the car behind you at high lumens.

alan s 

You telling me I'm going to have to up my game again? I'm already pumping out 1400 lumens between two lights, which is barely enough to overcome oncoming car headlights. Now I'll have to start worrying about bikes as well? Can't win.

boattail71

All commuters should have a steady front white light with a blinking rear red. Not a flashing front light! At least this is what our local bike authority group preaches.

Come to think of it, when driving, I do find flashing front lights distracting and annoying. Don't you?

noglider 

Causing annoyance does, at a certain point, cause danger. Courtesy includes not being annoying. I suspect it is rarely -- or perhaps never -- necessary to annoy in order to be seen safely. The fact that someone saw me as a result of my annoying lights (hypothetically) is NOT proof that I need to have annoying lights (or annoying clothing or hairstyle or anything else).

linnefaulk

From what I have read, the people who did suffer from seizures were working with their own bike likes, up close. The blinking needs to fill your vision. A bike light can only do that if you are inches away.
Many places do not allow people with epilepsy to drive.

PaulRivers

You could always just buy one of the bike ones and pull even easily. :-)

PaulRivers

But do you find flashing rear lights annoying?

After I've argued that I don't like overly bright front lights, I do like reasonably bright front flashing lights, just like I like reasonably bright rear lights. They're easy to see, and easy to tell it's a biker not a car. It's only when they get overpowered that I find them annoying.

Bike Hermit

Reckon that's what you get when you buy from a German discounter online because you don't want to pay full price
We have the converters as does Peter White. They are US $3

loky1179

Absolutely true. The fatal accident described in the article I referenced earlier occurred in clear conditions during the day.

The reason I first got a front blinky in the first place was a very close call I had during the daylight, crossing an intersection on a green light. Almost got left crossed, while pulling my son on the trail a bike.

I starting paying attention to these things on my commute, and I found that I could see oncoming cyclists much further away if they were using a front blinky. I don't believe my front blinky will make every driver see me, but I know it helps.

kingston 

It may not seem as bright as one of the 700+ lumen flashlights everyone seems to have, but it will be perfectly adequate, and you will have the peace and tranquility that comes with knowing that you are not annoying the rest of the world around you with an obnoxious headlight.

jputnam

Remember, though, that drivers who see the flashing lights of an emergency vehicle are supposed to promptly pull over and stop. That's one of the reasons flashing lights are generally prohibited on most vehicles -- you don't need to be able to see the road if you're stopped to let the police or an ambulance pass by, but if it's just some ass with flashing headlights blinding you, you can get rear-ended if you stop driving until he's gone by.

Here in Washington State, the law goes a bit too far, in my opinion -- the only flashing lights allowed on bicycles are blinking red tail lights. I'd support allowing modest front blinking lights, too, but I have no complaint when I see police stopping riders with strobing Magicshine clones or the like.

jputnam

Seen a couple of years ago outside Seattle, on my regular commute route along I-90:

"Thanks for not Flashing!" by joshua_putnam, on Flickr

TwoWheelWonder

At least in Illinois there is more nuisance if I recall correctly. Lights only is make way, but traffic doesn't have to pull over if not necessary. Also means that the emergency vehicle is subject to most all traffic laws - e.g. they can be pulled over for speeding. Lights & siren though is the immediate threat to life. Traffic laws are mostly suspended so long as it's safe, and traffic has to pull over and stop (with exceptions for divided highways or interstates - forget what the term is).

physdl

I use a cygolite metro 550 for my headlight. During the day, I use the day blinking mode. At night, I use either the night-time blinking or a steady beam. I typically aim the light lower in the day (5-10 feet in front of bike), further out at night. My feeling is that being seen is more important than the slight annoyance some people may have from a blinking light. To be honest, when I'm driving, I am annoyed by blinking lights. But I barely notice steady lights, so I'm happy that people have blinking lights (and it's definitely better than no lights!). I was actually stopped a week or two ago in the morning by a pedestrian who thanked me for having my lights on, wearing reflective clothing, and using a mirror. Said he's happy someone on a bike tries to be safe.

Medic Zero

If you aren't trolling, that is unnecessary overkill that is painful to everyone except you.
I'd bet virtually everyone you encountered would have complained if given the opportunity or asked.

My light usage has evolved over the past four years quite a bit. At first, when I first got back into commuting (after a several year hiatus) I never encountered another cyclist that had too bright of a light, so when we'd have these threads here I'd be agreeing with the people that said "the brighter the better", and "aim them right at the drivers", because the brightest lights that most people could afford weren't too bright. In the past few years though, there has been a massive proliferation of not only very expensive bright lights, but also inexpensive bright lights and it seems like a very high percentage of cyclists are riding around with light that go beyond rude and painful to other cyclists and pedestrians, but also dangerous to everyone because they are blinding drivers (as well as everyone else).

Do everyone a favor and have a medium powered blinking light.

I can almost understand all the road rage car drivers have when I too am constantly blinded by people who had to spend the most money on the most lumens and are rolling down even the MUP with one or more high powered lights on flashing.

My array;
forward facing lights:
* Weak-ish/medium powered white light flashing (Cateye Reflex) mounted in front of my head tube
* Powerful (Cree T6) flashlight mounted on the handlebars. Set to steady on, except for when I get frustrated by people with too bright lights on the MUP and I turn it on flashing for them, and then turn it back off after they pass. Aimed at the ground about 25 feet in front of me, and off when I'm on the MUP
* helmet mounted .5 watt white light, set to steady.

rearward mounted lights:
* Mars 4.0 set to solid on, mounted my saddlebag
* Helmet mounted PB 3-H set to flashing. Goldilocks on this one, not too bright, not too weak.
* Seatstay mounted flashing light. Right now this is a PB Super Flash, but I think that is too aggressive, and I'm looking for something not quite so bright/spastic. Unfortunately the Super Flashes solid mode seems very directional and not very good outside of that very narrow band, so it's not good as a solid-on light either. This one will be going to the swap meet with me next time. I've mounted quite it low on the seat stay to try and mitigate how bright this one is. Hopefully it's only bright when someone is pretty far away and as they get close they are off-axis and it isn't affecting them. I actually just added this light and may just pull it off, as I fear it is too much. I want a second fixed (not helmet mounted) rear light, but haven't decided on which one yet...


With a medium or even weak-ish flashing light, I feel like I still get the benefit of catching people's attention, but since I have a brighter solid light as well, I figure vehicles will still be able to judge my distance. Voila'! Best of both worlds people.


.

Medic Zero

How many of the tiny percent of the people that have epilepsy AND are triggered by flashing lights are actually driving? I'm thinking that's a zero.

Besides, it would appear that bike lights aren't in the ranges that trigger seizures anyway...

Medic Zero

I'm somewhat surprised to be agreeing with I-Like-To-Bike, but not only do I agree with the above, I wanted to quote it here, because it bears repeating.

cobrabyte

Surely, no one in this thread is guilty of this, lol

Duane Behrens

Yup. If flashing lights cause epileptic seizures, then flashing lights must immediately be removed from all law enforcement vehicles, ambulances, fire trucks and construction foremen's pickups. Think of the children.