BNB

I hope not to open a can of worms here, but I have a long(ish) and much hated relationship with Garmin. This company needs some serious competition as their devices really do suck. Sooo, here's a brief visit of my history with Garmin and other devices. All I really want is mapping with turn directions and basic distance, average speed, elevation gain a plus. I do NOT need all the other crapahola like virtual partner etc.

Original Garmin ($300 at the time) from way back fell off my bike, not found despite searching through brush along a busy road, due to their faulty handlebar mount. Garmin 500 bought for my hubby who WANTS someone to steal it and the endless complaining makes my head hurt (the thing can easily take 5 miles to find satellites while saying "working" the whole time - um, dear Garmin NOT working would be more appropriate message). My 800 that I initially had about a 50% success rate at getting my total mileage that slowly increased to 90% after I figured out all the user required stuff I had to do to get it to work. And remember to do this on every single ride. Someone stole it off my bike (another sordid story I'll gladly tell if you're interested).

Now that YOUR head likely hurts, is there ANY reasonable competition for a Garmin gps computer? I tried a Magellan but it didn't work with a Mac without a separate software download. I might revisit Magellan. Maybe their gps computer works out of the box with Macs now??

Excuse the rant. I really want a gps computer with maps and downloadable direction capability (ridewithgps etc) and will likely buy another Garmin if there is nothing else out there.

dorkypants

Wahoo ELEMNT? New, not cheap, reliability unknown because no established track record yet.

Bryton? Taiwanese. Not sure how much presence they have in N. America.

TomTom? Better known in Europe than N. America

Smartphone navigation app? On iPhone, Nokia Here Maps and Magic Earth are free, can work offline and have voice prompts. However, you will almost certainly need external battery packs as continued GPS use drains smartphone batteries pretty quickly. The UI may also take some figuring out.

Drew Eckhardt 

No.

Due to bad experiences with Garmin's buggy software I was unhappy to learn there are no comparable computers for following routes.

No other bike computers have the same support for routes including

• Custom cues like "food, safeway" from .tcx files
• A switch to the map screen 0.1 miles before a turn
• A turn arrow differentiating between multiple options which is accurate even when a left road wiggle before a right turn tells you to go the wrong way
• Maps with street names you can pan
• Turn instructions when your software omitted them

The Wahoo ELEMNT is getting close (they just released turn-by-turn for .tcx routes from ridewithgps) and has a more legible screen, although I wouldn't bet on the software being comparable until Q1 2017. Now it's like an Edge 520 with maps and a more legible screen. Unfortunately roads suitable for cycling are invisible when you zoom out, and there's no way to pan the screen to see where they go.

Android phone battery life isn't enough to get through rides long enough to require navigation, and software support for ANT+ sensors like power meters is spotty even on Samsung phones with the hardware.

You want an Edge 800 which has the best turn-by-turn support with the fewest bugs. You can buy a factory refurbished one for $170 which includes a new battery and case. I bought one after returning an ELEMNT due to bugs and missing functionality, and an 810 due to software bugs.

Use a leash to prevent loss.

Drew Eckhardt 

The Edge 500 picks up satellites better when you're not moving.

Mine was ready when I was if I turned it on and put it on a window sill while I got dressed, or I turned it on before I inflated my tires.

Tpcorr

My Edge 520 picks up the satellites in about 30 seconds or less if I'm outside, about 1 minute if I'm inside.

BNB

I'd never used his before, turned it on and it picked up satellites very fast (1 minute?) initially. I was satisfied, turned it off, ate breakfast, came out when I needed to leave for my group ride and it simply would not get beyond "working". I had to leave. hubby has had relentless complaints that I can't keep track of - mostly due to unintuitive UI for the "older" generation.

BNB

I'm keeping my eye on the ELEMNT. I read DC Rainmaker's review - and you're right that this device is not quite there yet. I really like the larger font - at least as far as I can tell from the DCR review. That tiny font on the garmin is one of many issues I have with garmin - are they all a bunch of 20 year olds?

In the meantime I ordered a mount for my iphone and will get a battery pack. I just do not want to give garmin any more of my $$$ for very expensive crap. I'm nervous about getting a refurbished garmin.

I'd been the most paranoid person about leaving the garmin on the bike but that day was insane riding the tandem in pouring rain, solo, trying to make a ferry ... Anyway, that was yet another problem - I'd stick the thing in my jersey pocket, pull it out and all the fields were changed due to touch screen. If I turned it off I'd forget to hit "start" and there's no reminder when you're mid ride - at least I never got one. My preference would be to have a device that is on if I'm moving. Don't ask me if I want to start and for god's sake, don't NOT ask if I'm moving. End of that issue. If I wanted it to stop then I could select that but that would never happen for me.

grouchy in san diego.

wschruba

The Magellan Mio/Cyclo 505 is a stunning "okay". On road, if performs fine, for the most part (you can have a map screen with two metrics on it, if you care to set it up; I do heart rate and speed--or distance, if I'm counting for cue purposes), but the [OS] map hasn't been updated for a while. Not really a problem, if you're following a track. Off road, is another story. The unit fails pretty spectacularly in tight, twisty tracks--it will often assume you are going the wrong way (this may be related to the electronic compass?), and tell you to re-route for a few hundred feet, until it realizes you are actually on the right trail. Mid-track re-routes are okay, for the most part, as long as they are obvious to the unit (like, a few hundred feet, it will realize what you did.). I can tell you personally, between the default 'zoom-the-map-way-the-hell-out', and the quick snap to large view from small when you hit a direction marker, it's very easy to miss turns that are within a hundred feet of each other.

Unfortunately, I find, short of Google Maps, very few devices/programs can be used reliably without a cue sheet, and even so, I prefer to 'scope out' the route by map.

I could gripe endlessly about the start/stop issue with the Magellan unit. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, but it's irritating, that after loading the bike/milling in a small area (20 square feet) for 10 minutes, it doesn't pause recording. Yeah, it's my fault, yadda yadda, but losing a track because I forgot to turn it off for the highway kind of sucks. At least some sort of program recognition would be nice. During a ride, if I'm not moving for a few minutes, it does pause by itself, but as you noted, if then prompts, "start recording?" after a hundred feet, or so. My $60 Sigma computer was smart enough to figure that out by itself...

I can't speak to the Mac vs. PC issue, so...

Drew Eckhardt 

It says "working" when it's processing .tcx courses into .fit courses. It can take a _long_ time so you want to do that when you load the routes. There may also be a little cached state which causes courses to load faster the second time. I select all the courses the night before my ride to make sure they work right.

Drew Eckhardt 

There's a screen lock on the 800 for that, which they eliminated in the 810.

You're better off just leaving it running. Software will figure out average moving speed, etc. if you're interested.

BNB

I have never, and will never, loaded a course into this garmin 500. It's only been used as a bike "computer". So "working" must have other reasons besides processing a tcx file.

And, yes, don't fix it if it ain't broke. Once started I will leave it on.

BNB

Thanks. If I ever get another 800 I will set that screen lock! Too bad they got rid of that. Very useful.

texbiker

I have been battling with my Edge 520. I am now trying the Wahoo Elemnt. I don't need every feature it has but so far after 3 rides it has run circles around the 520. Bluetooth would not stay paired but the Elemnt has not had any problems. Unless something happens before the 30 day return period ends I will keep the Elemnt.

BNB

Good to know. Mapping is crucial for me and it seems that Elemnt is well on its way ...

T Stew

Android phone battery life is greatly dependent on the particular model phone and your battery conservation skills. But you can extend your battery pretty much to how ever long you need if you can attach a simple USB power pack somewhere and run a cable to the phone. But yeah it's sometimes buggy and a pita to use.

BNB

Got a bike mount for my iphone. I have the ridewithgps app but turn-by-turn directions requires a fee. That's fine but what I'd like to know is what some of you who use your smart phone for navigation recommend?

T Stew

I just use google maps myself, though it can be a bit of a PITA and usually have to create the route on the computer first then send it to the phone.

gauvins

Similar experience with the Edge Touring.

I now use a Samsung S5 (water resistant) mounted on a quad lock (looks like a very secure system) connected to an in-steerer USB charger (I can start a ride with an empty battery, which will be fully recharged after 30 kms), running Locus which supports ANT+ sensors (I typically use speed+cadence and sometimes HRM) and is an otherwise very well designed (free) navigation app.

BNB

looks like a great app but no ios availability. : (

John_V 

For an iPhone, the best cycling app out there is Cyclemeter. If you must have turn-by-turn, stay with RideWithGPS. The folks at Cyclemeter are working on it but put it off for full support of the Apple Watch. If you want to conserve your battery life on your phone there are several things that you can do so that your battery will last for your entire ride, regardless of what the diehard Garmin users tell you. Do an internet search on ways to extend your battery life. I use an iPhone 5c that's about 2 1/2 years old. I went through each app and turned off notifications for any app that I don't care to receive notifications from. There are also some system settings that you can change that will keep the phone from using up battery power. Also, before you start your ride, swipe off all apps running in the background except your cycling app. That keeps all those apps from using up any cellular or wifi service that they may normally use. Also turn off wifi before your ride. Your cycling app does not need it. If you want to see what your speed, distance, cadence and other data during your ride, you may want to look at the Wahoo RFLKT which will connect to your phone and display whatever data your compatible cycling app sends it. RWGPS is compatible with the RFLKT, which is only $79.00. If you have Ant+ sensors that you used with your Garmins, the RFLKT+ will bridge the Ant+ signals and convert them to Bluetooth LE.

I use the RFLKT+ on my iPhone along with Wahoo's TICKR HRM and their Blue SC speed/cadence sensor. Doing the above, my 2 1/2 year old battery drains about 10% per hour. When my phone was new, I did a century without having to recharge my battery and still had enough battery life left to make an emergency call, if needed. Since the battery is much older now, I carry a USB charger on any ride over 65 miles, just in case. I did a 56 mile ride yesterday and didn't need it.

gsa103

The 510/520/810/820/1000 have receivers for both GPS and GLONASS (Russian) and as a result they are significantly faster to lock and more accurate than the 500/800.

Athens80

Start riding after the GPS position is fixed and ready, not before. In my 500 experience that might take 30 seconds to 2 minutes. When I was getting ready to ride, I'd turn on the 500 and before I had on my shoes, gloves and helmet, the 500 would be ready.

No crime necessary -- plenty of people would be glad to pay $111+ on ebay for the 500 your husband doesn't want. If you both don't want it, sell it to someone who does. It remains the workhorse of training-oriented cycling computers.

I do now use a Garmin with GPS and GLONASS and it fixes its location on startup very quickly.

In both cases, it helps that I'm usually starting it from the location where I last turned it off.

BNB

Had a good first test ride using Ridewithgps. I'm now paying the $6/month and glad to do this as I've used their services for free for many years. I turned off all apps running but didn't turn of wifi so thanks for that tip. It was a short ride of about 2 hours and took 30% of battery power. The screen was in automatic shut-off mode on half the ride. I found the option to never shut off the screen and chose that for the last half. The 30% drain for 2 hours won't cut it for most of my rides but I'm going to get an external battery (any suggestions appreciated - would like it to fit with my phone into my new bike mount. )

some tweeking as I learn this new system but so very glad to have this along with supporting ridewithgps, and not feel compelled to by junk for big $$$

other stuff: having my phone on the handlebars instead of in my jersey pocket which forced my jersey to hang down over my butt is so nice! The mount is a bit clunky looking but leaves more room for my hands on the handlebars.

Thanks for the suggestions/help!

Happier in San Diego!

BNB

very happy with using iphone instead of garmin. I'm hesitate to admit that I'm GLAD someone stole my garmin. The iphone with ridewithgps is really terrific. I bought an extra battery pack (I got 4 hours exactly from the fully charged iphone with no battery pack) and don't yet know how many hours I will get but definitely more than enough for my rides. Love the gps vocal directions including announcing regroup points and all-important coffee stop that were included in the originally created tcx file. Hope this helps others if they hate their garmin as much as I did!!