TiHabanero

I was talking with an acquantance of mine yesterday and he kept using the phrase Trek builds a mean bike. this repeated statement was driving me nuts! I just need to put it out there that Trek does not build much of anything. Nor does Specialized, Cannondale, Focus, Blue, KHS, Jamis, etc. etc. etc. These companies are marketing companies. Some literally build nothing for the mass market, but have it built for them by another company contracted to do the work. Some design work is handled by the marketing company, but the physical manufacture of the product is not done by them. I must also add that much of the design work is handled by the contract manufacturer, for obvious reasons.

One caveat here, Giant is a manufacturer, and does build the product they design and market other than the Giant branded accessories and tools. So, please, when talking about the company of choice be it bicycles, lawn mowers, or even autos, make sure when you say "They build a mean widget" that the company actualy builds the widget.

Thank you.

Ti

OldsCOOL

I build a mean Cannondale Criterium.

Retro Grouch 

Giant is an interesting story.

Before there were Giant bicycles there was a state of the art factory in Taiwan building bicycles for Schwinn. One day Schwinn decided they could get their bicycles made more cheaply in mainland China and took their business over there. So what were the Taiwanese to do? They started the Giant brand just to have an outlet for their production. In a sense, Schwinn actually financed their own competition.

Retro Grouch 

I build a mean Retro Grouch:

OldsCOOL

I believe Trek does build a mean bike but only if there is a mean rider.

Behold, one of the top 3 meanest in the road racing lineup in the '80s. Meet my redhot Cinnamon Girl:

cccorlew

It sounds to me like you should have visited the North American Handmade Bike show in Sacramento last weekend. The convention center was filled with bikes made by the people whose name was on them.

Barrettscv 

I build for Pinarello!

Wildwood 

+1
You should be buying your bikes from American craftsmen. Nothing new there.
Stop ranting and buy a steel, Al, CF, bamboo, wood, etc bike from a small shop or individual builder.

CrankyOne

A nit but still a good point.

However, I believe Trek do manufacture their higher end bikes themselves in Wisconsin. At least they did a few years ago when I toured their factory where they were clearly manufacturing bikes.

These alliances do all add value though. Azor is a bike manufacturer in The Netherlands. Here's a great video of the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdY3DcW4oFw

Workcycles is a 'manufacturer' in Amsterdam though they might better fit your marketer definition. Henry Cutler the owner of Workcycles is a very good design engineer. Originally he resold Azor designed and built bikes under the Workcycles brand (actually Henry Workcycles for a short time). He then designed slightly lighter and sportier versions of the Omafiets and Opafiets that Azor then built and he sold as Secret Service. Azor soon licensed these and also began selling them under their name. Workcycles then designed the Fr8 & Gr8 bicycles that are manufactured by Azor and sold by both companies. More recently Workcycles have designed (after some 5 years and dozens of trials frames) the Kr8 which is an improved version of the Bakfiets.NL.

Both companies add considerable value, both benefit from their relationship, and customers benefit.

On a side note, Tesla builds a mean car. And I think they manufacture a higher percentage of their branded car themselves than any other car company.

Dave Cutter

Bicycles are global product's. None are made anywhere... As parts for most.... Are from everywhere. I myself cannot place less value on the efforts and earning of a designer or "marketer" than I do on a welder or forklift operator. Trek does make a valued product! And Trek is an American product. I know.... We don't manufacturer like we did in the 1950's anymore... Times have changed.

gregf83 

No different than the business model used by Apple or most other tech companies as well as car companies. Many parts or assemblies are contracted out to other companies. Bike companies are better off focusing on their strengths, design and marketing, and leaving the manufacturing to other companies with a different focus. It's more efficient and results in a better product at lower cost for end users. Not sure what there is to complain about.

trackhub

It is interesting / amazing at how the bike business has changed. I love the vintage, early 80s Treks. Back then, they were truly special, being made of Reynolds steel,
at their small factory in Waterloo, WI.

I look at the various bikes on the sales floors, and none really do anything for me. Sorry folks, but they just don't. If I were going to purchase another bike, it would be:

-A vintage Trek, likely bought off ebay.
-Another Gunnar.
-OR, just go all-out and have one built up by Peter Mooney in Belmont.

I do remember when both Trek and Cannondale made big marketing stuff about how their bikes were American made. And now? It's
all been nice explained in the posting above.

John_V 

While most of your statement is correct, Trek does build their top two models in Waterloo, WI. The rest are designed here and made in Taiwan. The same holds true for most of the big companies you mentioned. They manufacture their top end bikes in their factory and outsource the rest of the bike. Up until a few years ago, the European bike makers were still making their bikes in their factories but now they are following the American trend. However, some of the Italian and other European makes, like Colnago, that still make steel bikes are still made in their respective factories.

BlazingPedals

I've put together several bikes, but the only one where I actually built the frame -- it's sitting in the pole barn as a bad example.

Rowan

Bike Friday make theirs in Eugene, Oregon. Machka and I visited the factory when we took delivery of our Pocket Llamas.

The process starts with a press that ovalises the main tube from round stock. Of course, the add-on parts aren't made in the factory, but are still assembled there to make a complete bicycle. The comparatively small size of the factory surprised me, but irrespective of that, they do a fine job in designing and making the bikes.

canklecat

One could argue that they build the bikes, but don't manufacture them from raw materials. A brick mason and carpenter can build a house without making their own bricks and lumber.

nmichell

My bamboo Aluboo singlespeed was built right here in Fort Collins, CO! ... although the bamboo came from Vietnam, don't know where the Aluminum pieces came from, and I'm sure the components were from somewhere else. Still

1989Pre 

They contract the work out in case there is a defect and resulting accident and injury. That way, Trek (and the others) can claim that it wasn't their fault. Yet, they still manage to charge $3,000 for a black plastic bike that cost them $150.00 to produce and ship

fietsbob

There is 'Build'... Having the frame then adding the parts then there is Frame-building starting from tube sets

or in the case of Carbon Fiber having the Mold to lay up all the fabric into , Trek is making the High end Carbon Fiber frames in the US

at $1000 the workers can get the Gig done ..


all the lesser price stuff as a result of you not accepting the Low wages of a illegal farm slave cannot compete

so for decades the work went to Asia, that did have lower overhead and labor costs,

And Now they are as good at it as anyone on the Planet.


Bike friday is Unique as Alan set up the machines doing each step side By side and the materials pass from one to another,
for each Bike frame.


Giant and Merida Grew by making bikes for export under many brands for a Long time ,
before setting up their Own distribution and dealer networks to also sell bikes wearing their own Name
and sposoring Pro Tour teams to ride them.

FBinNY 

It's a point but a very minor one. The reality is that with the exception of the Nottingham Raleigh plant of old (and probably a few in China and India) nobody actually made bicycles. Raleigh started with raw material, and made tubing, brazed frames, then made the hubs, rims brakes, seatposts, handlebars, stems, etc that were assembled onto them to make a bicycle.

In modern times, all a manufacturer makes is a frame, which is assembled of tubing and lugs (if any) bought outside, then they assemble bought components onto it. So the question is, where do we draw the line?

I understand the wish to draw a distinction between those who make stuff and those who have it made, but it's not all that easy.

Those interested in this debate can look up Bruce Gordon's organization SOPWAMTOS (Society of People Who Actually Make Their Own ****) for some fun and interesting reading.

BTW - keep in mind that even some of the builders who show at the handbuilt show buy, rather than build forks, and many (if not most) have their handbuilt creations painted by outside vendors.

BluesDawg

I think you are somewhat understating the involvement of the design portion of the manufacturing process. I do wish the economic realities would support and encourage US manufacturing at affordable pricing for more products. But even with US made products, components, even major components lik frames, being manufactured by contracted associates rather than the parent company is common. I spent 29 years working for a company that built significant airplane parts and assemblies for the companies that had their name on the final product. I never doubted that the planes were the product of the company that sold them.

JonathanGennick 

I can't see making an issue when someone, especially if it's a non-enthusiast, casually talks about Trek or some other brand "making" a bike. As well, Dave's comment here makes me realize that there is "make" in the sense of to manufacture, and there is "make" in the sense of "make to happen". Trek makes a bike by designing it and then making sure all the needed work gets done.

mrodgers

That analogy is more thinking of the building companies like Ryan Homes. The bike companies are the housing building companies. Ryan Homes supply the plans to the general contractors who are the factories in Asia and the brick masons and carpenters are the employees of the factories doing the actual building.

Someone mentioned cars. I work in automotive manufacturing in a 2nd tier company. We manufacture all the foam parts, the bumpers, door panels, seat cushions, headliners, trunk liners, fender liners, etc. for ALL the car manufacturers. They are shipped to a 1st tier assembler who assembles them in sub assemblies then those sub assemblies are shipped to the manufacturers' assembly lines to be put on a car. So for our parts there is no Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM, Dodge, Kia, Mazda, etc. The parts all come from the same manufacturer.

OldTryGuy

Giant happens to be one of the very few companies that actually weaves the CF from raw threads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSUKM3bvcyk AND they also produce their own bonding resin.

cb400bill

Please leave any political content out of this thread.