SweetLou

I know, government should pay for this necessity of life. Why should I have to pay for my own health care! Same with food and housing, we all know we can't live without food and shelter, so government should pay for it. I should be able to walk into any grocery store and get what ever I want and walk out the door and have some one else pay for it. I am appalled that this is not the case.

We should socialize health care, food, shelter, clothing, etc. because we all know that government does a much better job than private industry.

I much prefer our system of capitalism. I will pay for my own food, shelter and health care. I am sorry to hear that you are appalled by our system. I guess it is a good thing that you are Canadian and enjoy the way you pay for health care. I would rather have the choice of how my money is spent in such matters.

Allen

I was watching "Ice Road Truckers" the other night. It's a show about the truckers who supply the diamond and gold mines in the Canadian tundra during the heart of winter.
One of the drivers injured himself and had to be airlifted out for medical treatment. He had no insurance. His bill was $12,000.00 CAD, for the medivac, and subsequent treatment.

Y'all have a great health plan. If he did that on our side of the border he would be facing a bill of who knows what, but very easily approaching $100,000.00 or more. And with no insurance, he could very easily still be laying in a snow bank on the side of the road.

Rev.Chuck

Excellent false analogy. right now I pay $185 a month for health insurance. I have a freind in Canada that pays $132(C) a quarter for health insurance. We recieve about equal benefits. The insurance is not free in the US because you pay it out of pocket(I do) or the company you work for pays it and insurance companies operate for profit at the insistence of shareholders. In Canada insurance is not for profit and operated at cost so you still pay for it but it is cheaper.

Rev.Chuck

My wife finds wmm easier for doing credits and that is about all she uses it for.. She spends many hours reducing the raw footage to a finished film. She is better at film editing than I am but still cannot fillet braze a frame.

The other thing is this idea that all a mechanic does is fix bikes. we also have to manage inventory(create orders, calc pricing0, help customers, fit bikes, schedule employees(and make sure they work when scheduled), work races on our one day off for free(for people that appear to not appreciate it), arrange for a glazier to replace the window broken out by a theif last night, and all kinds of fun stuff.

Allen

I've broken my neck, my monthly health insurance is now up to $425.

Machka 

Well, in the last 8 months I've had to have one CT scan, one X-ray, one mammogram, and one MRI. I paid $0 out of pocket for all those, but I sort of suspect if I were an American citizen getting them done in the US (rather than a Canadian citizen getting them done in Canada), I would have paid a bit more than that.

Blue Order

Some people believe that these are basic human rights. These people live in every western democracy, save one. And even in that lone exception, a large percentage of the population also believes that these are basic human rights.

And that's a tired old canard about private industry and government. Anybody can make government look inept by deliberately sabotaging a government program so that it can't work.

And I don't. Nor do the majority of the world's people. I suspect if you didn't have everything handed to you-- or do you TRULY pay for your own health care?-- you wouldn't prefer our system of capitalism either. And here's some news for you-- those other western democracies are capitalist too.

I'm not Canadian. But it's obvious that the Canadian poster wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the American one.

Where did you get the notion that you have a choice in how your health care dollars are spent?

Blue Order

According to SweetLou, Government is incapable of providing those services to you as efficiently as private health insurance companies do here in the U.S. You must be mistaken.

Machka 

Speaking as one of the Canadian posters on this thread (there's a guy from Victoria here too, so far), I'm not appalled by the American system .... I just prefer the Canadian system. I have no problem with the way I pay for health care at all.

I like knowing I can go for CT scans, and MRIs, and physiotherapy, etc. when I want to or need to without having to save up the money for it.

I mentioned a few things I had done in the last 8 months ... well, I crashed my bicycle in early April and as a result of that crash, I had the X-ray and the MRI, plus I've been going to physio (for free) about once every two weeks since early April. If I had to pay for any of that out of pocket, I couldn't have gotten any of it done.

Machka 

Yeah ... I had to wait about 2 weeks for the CT scan, I got into the X-ray the same day it was ordered, and although the wait for my MRI was a bit longish (2 months), the machine they used was brand new ... one of the newest MRI machines on the market. Maybe all that wasn't very efficient.

Blue Order

In the U.S., you make an appointment with a doctor, however far in advance the doctor has an opening. Then you get the order for the test, and make an appointment for that. All assuming you can afford to see a doctor, and can afford to have the tests.

That's called "efficiency" here.

Machka 

Each time, I just went to a Walk-In clinic. I got in to see the 'Dr on Duty' in less than an hour ... the Dr checked me over, then ordered the tests.

Blue Order

Yeah, the last time I went to a doctor, I had a choice of an appointment a few weeks later, or that morning. I took that morning.

And still haven't paid the bill.

iced_theater

Which is exactly why I believe it's dumb when people say support your LBS as they can fix your bike when it needs it, when if it's easy enough for someone who gets paid minimum wage to do it. Then it's obviously not something you need a master's degree to be able to do yourself.

gpsblake

Didn't mean for this thread to be about health insurace but....

The health system in the US is really great if

** you are rich and can afford anything
** you are poor and have kids (medicaid & state programs)
** work for a union not in the food industry

It sucks if you are lower middle class, self employed, a small business owner. If you got to get your own insurance, if you got diabetes or something preexisting, it's really hard to get coverage.

operator

You were expecting BENEFITS for an entry level, min wage job? Are you serious? And i'm surprised they don't offer a higher wage for someone with experience.

The reason why no experience required jobs pay less is because they have to apprentice you in.

Toastytofu

O.O and this is bad?!
holy jebus!
is this bike store in/near columbia SC?!
i beseech you as the lowly studen that i am! give me the name of this LBS!

i need a job
and $6.25 is more than enough for something i'd do for free.

chephy

I wouldn't mind paying A LOT more.

chephy

Government DOES pay for it for those who can't afford it. You don't hear of people dying of starvation in the U.S. very often. It might not be the most delish food or the poshest neighbourhood... but it's enough to keep you alive and reasonably healthy. Not so with healthcare.

Not to mention that healthcare in the U.S. is ridiculously overpriced, literally by orders of magnitude.

DieselDan

gpsblake, you do realize you live in the second poorest state in the nation? Many third world countries do better then South Carolina. You live in the car chopping capitol of the Southeast anyway, so why are you bothering with bicycles?

I'm a lifelong resident of South Carolina and can make these comments with impunity.

Machka 

I was on Vancouver Island in early April ... if I'd only known!

SweetLou

Yes, we all pay for health care, either through the government, insurance or out of pocket. You will pay one way or another. It might be cheaper but as explained, but at a cost, either through slower treatment or less treatment. Here, if I don't like what the doctor says or wants, I can change doctors. It is my choice of how I will be treated.

Really? Who paid for it or did the health professionals work for free? Was the hospital built with free labor also? Like I said, you do pay for it, it is just the manner that the payment is processed.

And can you show me where people have deliberately sabotaged a government program? I see government waste almost daily. A private industry, since it is there to make money, not to spend money will try to reduce these wastes, so that they can make more money. Since government is a monopoly, it does not need to entice you to use their services, you must use their services. Private industry will try to get you to use their services in a couple of different manners, either through cost, enjoyability, speed, knowledge etc. Either way, it is your choice which one you want to use.

The majority of the world's people don't? Do you know this for a fact or you are just assuming that what you want is what most people want?

Well, I wasn't going to get personal about this, but... No Everything wasn't handed to me. I worked my way through college, got a job. When I took a job, I compared everything, my salary, benefits, etc. Yes, I do pay for my health care, it is part of my compensation. As a matter of fact, the company I work for gives me the option of the company paying for the insurance or I can get that money in my paycheck.

As for the other democracies, they are becoming less democratic and more socialist, as is the US, but not to the extreme as Europe.

Great. That is what that person wants. I have no problem with that. I wouldn't trade the American system for the Canadian one. I couldn't care less what others want to do. I do care when their wishes interfere with my wishes.

I do have a choice. Where do you think I don't? I have chosen how I pay for health care ( through insurance, out of pocket, etc), I have chosen which doctors, labs, hospitals I go to, I have chosen which method of treatment is best for me.

For free? Your taxes don't pay for it? I have never wrecked my bike to a point where I have needed medical attention but I have had some injuries ( broke my leg, my arm, herniated two disks in my back, separated my shoulder, torn ligaments in both knees, a couple of concussions, along with other bumps and bruises) I was seeing a physio a couple of times a week, not once every two weeks. My insurance paid for it.
Why wouldn't you have been able to get any of it done? Instead of paying taxes to pay for it, you could have put that money to insurance or put in away for such a thing. Again, we all pay for it, it just how you pay for it.

Maybe.

As mentioned earlier, I have had my share of injuries. I think the longest I have ever had to wait for a MRI was 3 days, seen a specialist.. maybe 4 or 5 days, usually faster.

Yeah, sorry about hijacking the thread, but when blue order decided to give his opinion about our health care system, I had to chime in. I will disagree with your statements though, medical attention is never refused if needed in the US. We also have many organizations that will help those that need help. I know this from experience, I have arthritis now and couldn't afford my injections. The drug maker set up a program for people like me to pay for the medication I needed. If you search, you will find many programs out there that do this. No need for government to do this.

Yes, I know. I knew this when I posted my original message. I actually did this on purpose knowing that someone would mention it. Just so I can say that our government (the people of the US) do pay for such things for people that need it, we just believe that private industry is better, more efficient, etc. But you missed the point on health care. We still pay for that also. Do you know someone that has been turned away from receiving health care that they truly need? I don't think so, as a matter of fact, it is against the law to refuse treatment to anyone that needs it, no matter if they can pay for it.

How did you come up with that figure? As mentioned before, workers' comp.

I am glad some of you like your system of paying for health care and the socialization of your society. That is your choice, it is not mine. Unlike some here, I want government out of my life, not making decisions for me. I prefer to make my own decisions, whether it is how I pay for health care, what I eat ( yes, government is now telling some people what they can eat), or any other choices I make, as long as they don't affect others.

Machka 

Just curious ....

How much would an American have to pay out of pocket for:

-- several Dr's appointments
-- an X-Ray
-- an MRI
-- 10+ physio appointments


Of course my taxes pay for it .... but I hardly pay any taxes at all, and my taxes go to all sorts of things (educational stuff, roads, etc. etc. etc.) of which medical-related stuff is only a portion.

donnamb 

Depends on the insurance plan. For me, that would come to about $1000 (USD).

Cyclist0383

I think she means the actual cost to a person without private insurance.