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  1. #76
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    I've no idea why you here, and elsewhere on this board, feel compelled to resurrect threads that have long since run their course, but since you do ... in this instance your characterization of 'road bikers' (whatever they are; I can only assume you meant 'road cyclists' or 'roadies') is utter nonsense, as is your characterization of those who prefer (as I do) to do their cycling on what are referred to as 'hybrid' bicycles.
    Too much Canadian whiskey my friend? eh? I bet cycling, cyclist and all the rules of fun are changing monthly...Sorry for ressurecting the old thread... I forgot its not a FORUM. Remind me why the hell I ended up in NEWS section???
    Oh...forgot to ask. You saying "bikers" or "bikes" are NOT the right form? Guess what...you will find that word even on Specialized website.
    And hey...don't be down...it shows...Smile and think spring...
    Last edited by lopek77; 02-25-14 at 08:34 PM.
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  2. #77
    Senior Member cbr9927's Avatar
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    I have not been on this forum long and in the hybrid section there seems to be a price point 99% of buyers don't cross and that's the 1400-1500 dollar mark. While in the Road Section you have guys spending 3-4-5-6-7-8k on bikes. Bike shop owners know the next step for most people from a 600 dollar hybrid is not to a 2k hybrid but to a 2k road bike. Have not read one person for example pony up anywhere near what Cannondale charges for their carbon hybrid Quick bikes and being in a large city I have never seen one store carry one. I do see them on ebay .
    Last edited by cbr9927; 02-26-14 at 05:51 AM.
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  3. #78
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hybridbike View Post
    Is it looked down upon?
    It certainly is, at least by many hardcore roadbikers.
    The reasons for this include the following:
    -a hybrid is generally slightly heavier
    -a hybrid is generally less aerodynamic and the position of the rider generally less aggressive

    One big difference, also, is the fact that a hybrid's handlebar is mostly quite a lot wider than a typical roadracebike's handlebar.
    This may not seem like a big deal for recreational group riding, but for very fast, aggressive, tightly packed group riding it is dangerous.
    In other words: don't take your hybrid to a fast paceline

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Too much Canadian whiskey my friend? eh? I bet cycling, cyclist and all the rules of fun are changing monthly...Sorry for ressurecting the old thread... I forgot its not a FORUM. Remind me why the hell I ended up in NEWS section???
    Oh...forgot to ask. You saying "bikers" or "bikes" are NOT the right form? Guess what...you will find that word even on Specialized website.
    And hey...don't be down...it shows...Smile and think spring...
    Wine, actually; never did get on with whiskey! Hard to think 'spring' this week; same where you are I should imagine (if your in SE MI you must be having much the same weather).

    So, look ... you've got me participating in an old thread -- contradict myself or what?!?

    Edit: ... in fact, I find myself wanting to say something on the subject (below), so I'll offer an apology for my ill-tempered post.
    Last edited by badger1; 02-26-14 at 08:10 AM.

  5. #80
    Senior Member ColonelSanders's Avatar
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    It might just be that I don't have enough experience with drop bars, but over the years, I have pretty much detested using them every time.

    Now perhaps this will change when no doubt I give it another go in the future, but for me, I strongly suspect my riding future will only involve hybrids and maybe flatbar road bikes.
    Last edited by ColonelSanders; 02-26-14 at 06:47 AM.

  6. #81
    Senior Member MRT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbr9927 View Post
    I have not been on this forum long and in the hybrid section there seems to be a price point 99% of buyers don't cross and that's the 1400-1500 dollar mark. While in the Road Section you have guys spending 3-4-5-6-7-8k on bikes. Bike shop owners know the next step for most people from a 600 dollar hybrid is not to a 2k hybrid but to a 2k road bike. Have not read one person for example pony up anywhere near what Cannondale charges for their carbon hybrid Quick bikes and being in a large city I have never seen one store carry one. I do see them on ebay .
    I know a guy who rides a $2K hybrid. He is a biking enthusiast who, because of his age (early to mid 70s), prefers a more upright riding position. I rode with him once and at the speeds he rides (slow!), I can't imagine the he can tell the difference between a full carbon bike and a bike with just a carbon fiber fork, but he wants a CF frame and fork, and better components.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
    I know a guy who rides a $2K hybrid. He is a biking enthusiast who, because of his age (early to mid 70s), prefers a more upright riding position. I rode with him once and at the speeds he rides (slow!), I can't imagine the he can tell the difference between a full carbon bike and a bike with just a carbon fiber fork, but he wants a CF frame and fork, and better components.
    Maybe he can't -- maybe he can. However, I suspect precisely the same is true of 99+% of persons who purchase full-carbon $2K+ drop-bar road bikes, whatever their age: there are many, many reasons one might purchase such a bike (flat-bar or drop bar), or the equivalent in an mtb etc., but for all of us save elite-level or pro cyclists these purchases have to do with 'want' rather than 'need'. Apology for the long-winded post, but I like thinking about these things.

    I'm an old man (62); I ride a $2k+ 'hybrid' (flat-bar road bike). In terms of speed/distance, I'd call myself an experienced, serious, 'mid-pack' cyclist; I do about 7000kms/year, and have done since I resumed cycling in 2002. I don't race, don't 'train', don't do group rides etc. I do ride long distances (including centuries) -- I just love riding my bike. I built my bike myself, in a sense; bought a 2010 Sirrus Comp, rode it a season stock. The ride/geometry were just right, so I proceeded to re-build it to my liking (drivetrain, brakes, etc.). For various physiological reasons, I don't get along with drop-bars and can't really use them. I have never found flat-bars with bar-ends to be in any way limiting or uncomfortable -- maybe I'm just fortunate, though I think that for non-racing cyclists the advantages of drop-bars (and there are some) are way over-hyped.

    So, that's me -- I'm using myself as an example. I'm happy with what I have; in no realistic way does it limit my riding. Do I 'need' a new bike? No. Do I 'want' one? Yes. For example, as soon as e.g. Specialized wakes up, and begins producing a full carbon, disc-braked, high-end version of the Sirrus with proper flat-bar geometry (i.e. a slightly extended effective top tube for a given size as compared to an equivalent drop-bar version, unlike the current high-end Sirrus bikes -- which are simply Roubaix frames with flat-bars slapped on), I will buy it if I can afford it. My current bike comes in solidly under 20 lbs. w/pedals; I would like something around 17 lbs. Why? Because I like the feel of a light bike. Do I need one that light? No -- but I'd like one. Good enough reason for me.

    As far as I'm concerned, the same hold true for 99+% of non-racing cyclists, whatever the age. So in my view the very common notion that very costly road/race bikes or mtbs or cyclocross bikes are somehow 'legitimate', while very costly 'hybrid'/flat bar bikes are not, is simply without foundation; it is the result of a peculiarly North American/English association of 'serious' cycling with the pro-racing paradigm. If one is not racing, or training for racing, and looking like one is racing or training for racing, one is not a 'serious' cyclist and doesn't "deserve" an expensive bike, which is a pointless expense. That attitude is much less common in much of Europe, and that is why bike companies there produce -- and people buy -- very high-end 'hybrids', flat-bar road bikes, etc.

  8. #83
    Senior Member MRT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Maybe he can't -- maybe he can. However, I suspect precisely the same is true of 99+% of persons who purchase full-carbon $2K+ drop-bar road bikes, whatever their age: there are many, many reasons one might purchase such a bike (flat-bar or drop bar), or the equivalent in an mtb etc., but for all of us save elite-level or pro cyclists these purchases have to do with 'want' rather than 'need'. Apology for the long-winded post, but I like thinking about these things.

    I'm an old man (62); I ride a $2k+ 'hybrid' (flat-bar road bike). In terms of speed/distance, I'd call myself an experienced, serious, 'mid-pack' cyclist; I do about 7000kms/year, and have done since I resumed cycling in 2002. I don't race, don't 'train', don't do group rides etc. I do ride long distances (including centuries) -- I just love riding my bike. I built my bike myself, in a sense; bought a 2010 Sirrus Comp, rode it a season stock. The ride/geometry were just right, so I proceeded to re-build it to my liking (drivetrain, brakes, etc.). For various physiological reasons, I don't get along with drop-bars and can't really use them. I have never found flat-bars with bar-ends to be in any way limiting or uncomfortable -- maybe I'm just fortunate, though I think that for non-racing cyclists the advantages of drop-bars (and there are some) are way over-hyped.

    So, that's me -- I'm using myself as an example. I'm happy with what I have; in no realistic way does it limit my riding. Do I 'need' a new bike? No. Do I 'want' one? Yes. For example, as soon as e.g. Specialized wakes up, and begins producing a full carbon, disc-braked, high-end version of the Sirrus with proper flat-bar geometry (i.e. a slightly extended effective top tube for a given size as compared to an equivalent drop-bar version, unlike the current high-end Sirrus bikes -- which are simply Roubaix frames with flat-bars slapped on), I will buy it if I can afford it. My current bike comes in solidly under 20 lbs. w/pedals; I would like something around 17 lbs. Why? Because I like the feel of a light bike. Do I need one that light? No -- but I'd like one. Good enough reason for me.

    As far as I'm concerned, the same hold true for 99+% of non-racing cyclists, whatever the age. So in my view the very common notion that very costly road/race bikes or mtbs or cyclocross bikes are somehow 'legitimate', while very costly 'hybrid'/flat bar bikes are not, is simply without foundation; it is the result of a peculiarly North American/English association of 'serious' cycling with the pro-racing paradigm. If one is not racing, or training for racing, and looking like one is racing or training for racing, one is not a 'serious' cyclist and doesn't "deserve" an expensive bike, which is a pointless expense. That attitude is much less common in much of Europe, and that is why bike companies there produce -- and people buy -- very high-end 'hybrids', flat-bar road bikes, etc.
    Don't get me wrong. I am not judging. If we get into strictly need, most of us could get by on an old mountain bike, or old school 10 speed if we really had to.

    He likes a light bike, and wants equivalent quality components as one would find on a drop bar road bike. I see nothing wrong with that. He knows it isn't really making him faster (god help him if it is), but he enjoys riding a better bike.

    Even if the performance were zero, which it might be, it would still be ok. It is his money. I know lots of people who wear a $10,000 watch, even though a $50 watch tells time as well, or better, than the expensive model.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
    Don't get me wrong. I am not judging. If we get into strictly need, most of us could get by on an old mountain bike, or old school 10 speed if we really had to.

    He likes a light bike, and wants equivalent quality components as one would find on a drop bar road bike. I see nothing wrong with that. He knows it isn't really making him faster (god help him if it is), but he enjoys riding a better bike.

    Even if the performance were zero, which it might be, it would still be ok. It is his money. I know lots of people who wear a $10,000 watch, even though a $50 watch tells time as well, or better, than the expensive model.
    I didn't think you were -- didn't sound judgemental at all! I thought your post raised some interesting issues directly and indirectly, so I responded and took-off from it. And of course you are right: a new full-carbon, hydro disc, flat-bar Di2 (it will come!) bike @, say, 17 lbs all-up certainly won't make me any faster -- but I want one when such beasts show up! Might delay retirement for a year, but I can live with that. Are my priorities skewed or what?

  10. #85
    Senior Member ps249's Avatar
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    A hybrid is a real road bike. With a hybrid you can sit in a more upright position and take in the scenery- unlike a roadie staring at the pavement. I was a mountain biker for 16 years until I moved up to a hybrid back in 2009. A hybrid makes it easier for mountain bikers to move into a road type bike. After 16 years of mountain biking- I was realizing that I was riding the bike more on the rail trails so I decided a hybrid was for me. I do not miss mountain biking at all. I notice I am buying more tires and tubes with a hybrid, however. I will also choose a hybrid over a road bike for safety reasons. By definition a hybrid should be called a road bike and road bikes should be called racing bikes.
    Last edited by ps249; 02-26-14 at 11:50 AM.

  11. #86
    Senior Member cbr9927's Avatar
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    On my Giant road bike I just flipped the stem from -6 degrees to + 6 degrees and it changes it by a lot. I tired a + 15 degree rise once and it felt like a touring bike. Road bikes are not hard to feel comfortable in with a minor adjustment.
    Last edited by cbr9927; 02-26-14 at 11:19 AM.
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  12. #87
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ps249 View Post
    A hybrid is a real road bike. With a hybrid you can sit in a more upright position and take in the scenery- unlike a roadie staring at the pavement. I was a mountain biker for 16 years until I moved up to a hybrid back in 2009. A hybrid makes it easier for mountain bikers to move into a road type bike. After 16 years of mountain biking- I was realizing that I was riding the bike more on the rail trails so I decided a hybrid was for me. I do not miss mountain biking at all. I notice I am buying more tires and tubes with a hybrid, however.
    Most bicycles get ridden on the road so by that definition, they are all road bikes but in the business of cycling the term road bike is pretty much synonymous with racing bicycles or higher performance machines.

    When people say, "I ride a road bike" this does not come to mind and no-one should confuse it with a mountain bike although it handles the road rather well and does not mind when things get a little bumpy.



    The term "hybrid" used to define bikes like this and now it seems to have gone the way of mountain bikes where there are many sub genres like all mountain, cross country, and downhill just as road cyclists seem to hold a much narrower view of what a road bike is.

    If my friends call me up and ask if I want to go on a road ride I would not bring the BRC... but I might bring my XC bike or folder just to mess with them.


  13. #88
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Edit: ... in fact, I find myself wanting to say something on the subject (below), so I'll offer an apology for my ill-tempered post.
    You're good. I was debating saying something myself. This is a forum,however,it's poor forum etiquette to just dig up a stack of old threads. Really no good reason to fire up this debate again.

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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    You're good. I was debating saying something myself. This is a forum,however,it's poor forum etiquette to just dig up a stack of old threads. Really no good reason to fire up this debate again.
    I know; I did feel a little bad about my waspish response so thought I'd mollify things. I do stand by the substance of my comments, however, and I do think that this poor board is suffering a little at the moment. Oh well. By the bye, the poster in question is taking quite a beating at the moment over on the 41 ... started a thread about 'toe overlap', of all things.

  15. #90
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    I know; I did feel a little bad about my waspish response so thought I'd mollify things. I do stand by the substance of my comments, however, and I do think that this poor board is suffering a little at the moment. Oh well. By the bye, the poster in question is taking quite a beating at the moment over on the 41 ... started a thread about 'toe overlap', of all things.
    lol If something bother me I just ask and talk about that. I think It's a idea of the forum. I don't see any thread as an "old one". It may look old to you or me at this moment, but it may be something helpful for the next person. I still find a lot of "old threads" that are helping me with understanding some things and many are really interesting.
    Some of you may not agree with my way of thinking, but are cool and understanding about it, and some will be always a-holes no matter what. But hey, it's live and we are all different. No need to be an ass for silly reason....right? I can take beating quite well, but only from intelligent opponents ;-)
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  16. #91
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    Yes, you won't look super cool while simultaneously being totally practical.

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    Nothing at all wrong with owning a hybrid. If your happy with it and it works for you thats what matters.

    Sometimes I get "looks" from road bike guys when I am out riding my hybrid, I don't care. I don't need some super cool ultra carbon road bike to fit in with other cyclists.

  18. #93
    Senior Member elcruxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Most bicycles get ridden on the road so by that definition, they are all road bikes but in the business of cycling the term road bike is pretty much synonymous with racing bicycles or higher performance machines.

    When people say, "I ride a road bike" this does not come to mind and no-one should confuse it with a mountain bike although it handles the road rather well and does not mind when things get a little bumpy.



    The term "hybrid" used to define bikes like this and now it seems to have gone the way of mountain bikes where there are many sub genres like all mountain, cross country, and downhill just as road cyclists seem to hold a much narrower view of what a road bike is.

    If my friends call me up and ask if I want to go on a road ride I would not bring the BRC... but I might bring my XC bike or folder just to mess with them.

    I really don't think road bike is synonymous with racing bike. More like goal oriented drop bar bike. Racing bikes are a big part of road cycling and most of the innovations trickle down from high end road to other types of road. But the defining factor for road bikes still usually is the drop bar and a certain geometry type for the frame.

    When I say goal oriented I of course mean that every road bike serves a role. Some bikes may have multiple purposes depending on the rider but most are designed for a specific purpose.
    Specialized venge, Cervelo S5, etc. These bikes are flatland racing bikes. The goal is to win races, be it pro or cat 5.
    Specialized tarmac, Cervelo R3, Trek Madone. These are flat/climbing bikes still for racing but with a differen intent
    Specialized Roubaix, Trek Domane etc. Comfort road bike. Can be used for racing but are aimed more for the enthusiast type of rider who does not necessarily generate the amount of power a racer would (power potential is a massively underestimated part of road bike fitting...)
    Surly long haul trucker is a touring bike meant for... you guessed it, touring! It has all the necessary eyelets for racks etc. Definitely not for racing.
    Salsa warbird is a gravel grinder for dirt and gravel roads (it can be contested whether GG's or CX's are road bikes, but I count them in the road category)
    Then there's the whole world of randonneur bikes, Tri bikes, and so many others. For the average joe every bike looks the same but every one is different and serves one goal.

    Then again only touring of those is not as such a race, but one would be hard pressed to find a MTB specialty which is not meant for racing. let's face it. Cycling very much revolves around racing. Then again that does not mean one should not just reap the benefits and ride nice bikes for whatever purpose.

    But the main difference between a road bike and a hybrid is that the hybrid is not goal oriented. A hybrid is a bike one uses for everyday riding such as going to town, bar, store, just going for a spin etc. All of those can be done with for example a touring bike, but a touring bike is bought for touring, whereas a hybrid is bought because one needs a bike.

  19. #94
    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
    I really don't think road bike is synonymous with racing bike. ... But the main difference between a road bike and a hybrid is that the hybrid is not goal oriented.
    I agree completely with the first statement but not with the second one.
    A hybrid can be goal oriented if your goal is to be able to do as many things as well as possible with only one bike.

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    I own more hybrids than any other type of bike. They aren't speedy long distance bikes, but they're versatile and a lot of fun - and generally more affordable. They serve a purpose, just like any other bike. Can't beat them for city, all terrain and recreational riding. Bike shops and manufacturers are pushing speed bikes because of racing and it has a firm hold on how many cyclists think about bikes. Just know you are probably having more fun on your bike.
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    Senior Member AdelaaR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzy View Post
    Just know you are probably having more fun on your bike.
    Possibly ... depending on one's interpretation of the term "fun".
    I own three bikes that are all quite different and I can have great fun on every one of them when I use it for what it's intended.
    A TT, for instance, where your heartrate is around or above treshold all the time and you get nauseous near the end ... can be great fun, too

  22. #97
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    Does anyone feel this way or maybe since I'm still a newbie on cycling.
    It is a practical all around choice ..

    maybe the N+1 factor will kick in and you may want that Road bike , later,

    and branch out to swim-bike-run Triathlons.

    .. you won't look super cool while simultaneously being totally practical.
    depends on what you wear while riding that bike .. Sport coat/Blazer and tie, khakis

    or a nice dress and sweater..
    Last edited by fietsbob; 03-04-14 at 11:46 AM.

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    When I got my hybrid back in Sept, it was with a clear goal: I wanted something for fitness, but also something I could attach a toddler seat to. At the time, a jack of all trades type of bike was important to me, and it still is. That said, as my fitness improved I definitely wanted something to get bit faster and more aerodynamic, and was lucky enough to get a used road bike from a coworker, but only because I felt it was a natural progression for my riding style. No matter how serious I may eventually get with a road bike, I can't begrudge anyone who wants to just get on a bike and get fit

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubcyclist View Post
    When I got my hybrid back in Sept, it was with a clear goal: I wanted something for fitness, but also something I could attach a toddler seat to. At the time, a jack of all trades type of bike was important to me, and it still is. That said, as my fitness improved I definitely wanted something to get bit faster and more aerodynamic, and was lucky enough to get a used road bike from a coworker, but only because I felt it was a natural progression for my riding style. No matter how serious I may eventually get with a road bike, I can't begrudge anyone who wants to just get on a bike and get fit
    Funny, I took almost the exact opposite route. I started with the drop handlebar bike, upgraded to a Specialized Tarmac carbon fiber road bike (which I love, by the way), then realized how ridiculously more practical the hybrid is while simultaneously allowing me to go nearly as fast as the road bike if I'm in that mode. So I bought a cheapy hybrid and noticed I ride it about 3 times more than I ride the road bike, and quite frankly find the road bike very difficult to justify keeping at this point.

    And the road bike can't pull the toddler trailer, which the hybrid rocks at.

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    Most people in Europe ride city bikes. City bikes are closer to hybrids than road bikes. IMO hybrids are more universally used than road bikes.

    That said, IMHO nothing can take the place of cruising downhill on a slightly inclined smooth road on my Record Ace!
    Last edited by WestPablo; 03-06-14 at 11:40 AM.

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