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  1. #1
    cs1
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    Who would buy this Crosstrail Pro Disc

    OK who would buy a Specialized Crosstrail Pro Disc for $1,980? I could almost buy a Stumpjumper for that money. The Crosstrail comes with a low end SunTour fork. Am I missing something?
    1999 Waterford RSE-11, 1995 Waterford 1200, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp
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  2. #2
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    I would if somebody paid at least half for it and I the rest lol Its an awesome bike, but like most bikes NOT WORTH ITS PRICE TAG. All bikes are overpriced, and anything over 1000 is just crazy... Bicycle is a simple machine, R&D is not as expensive as any other motor vehicle, cost to make it is very low comparing to motor vehicle, very little materials needed to build it....yet, its probably the most expensive and overpriced product in the world, especially high end, fragile bicycles. That issue was uncovered by so many in the past, but if folks are willing to spend 1000's for a bicycle - they will keep making them...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    OK who would buy a Specialized Crosstrail Pro Disc for $1,980? I could almost buy a Stumpjumper for that money. The Crosstrail comes with a low end SunTour fork. Am I missing something?
    Hmmmm ... interesting question. How one might answer it depends in part on how one reads your intention in asking it. There are two possibilities: you might have looked closely at the spec., and thought that 1980 U.S. is somewhat high for that particular bike? Or, you might be trolling here, and asking the question on the assumption that -- in your opinion -- no one in his/her right mind would pay 1980 U.S. for a "mere hybrid". I'm not for a moment assuming the latter is the case, but it is a possibility; there have been a number of posts very recently on threads here that are predicated on that assumption.

    Assuming the former intention, I would answer this way. I'm not at present in the market for such a bike, but if I were something like the Sirrus Crosstrail Pro would be high on my list; I would be representative of its target market.

    However, I would probably not buy it for several reasons. First, I think Specialized bikes are in general somewhat overpriced (and I'm a Specialized owner); this is particularly the case here in Canada. Second, the fork. You characterize it as "low end". It is not. It is in fact a perfectly good 'trekking' fork (to use Euro terminology), with hydraulic rebound/damping/lockout. However, at this price level it should be the air-spring, not coil, version. Third, like many Specialized bicycles (my Sirrus included), it is supplied with a crap headset and mediocre wheelset. At that price, one is entitled to expect a sealed cartridge-bearing headset and hubs. However, the frame appears excellent, so too the drivetrain and brakes. So, my opinion would be that it is a very good bike, but that Specialized is asking an "excellent bike" price. In Canada, we get a version between the Comp and the Pro -- the 'Expert' -- which itself is probably overpriced and (haven't checked) priced at what the 'Pro' should be priced.

    Back to that fork, and your reference to a Stumpjumper (or Crave Pro for that matter). Someone looking at this (Crosstrail) wouldn't ordinarily be looking at a 29er. A Stumpjumper is intended to be used as a mountain bike; its geometry and general orientation reflect that. The Crosstrails are intended to be 'cross terrain' bikes; their geometry and general orientation reflect that. They are more efficient on-road than would be a 29er (even with road tires) -- less efficient off-road but still capable of light-to-medium off-road. To my mind, that is a perfectly legitimate and appealing orientation. That is one reason I detest the term 'hybrid', and prefer the European term 'cross bike' for these bikes.

    In Europe they are treated as a serious choice; consequently, very high-end examples are easily available. Example:

    http://www.cube.eu/en/bikes/tour/tonopah/tonopah-sl/

    One might note that the fork is still a Suntour trekking fork, but here (properly) an air-spring version, probably with the OEM aluminum steerer option. That (the Cube) is what, to my mind, a $2000+/- cross ('hybrid') should be.

    More generally, the question Lopek77 raises aside -- and it is a legitimate question, I see nothing odd about paying a premium price for a premium 'cross' bike (not this one!), any more than I would for either an mtb or a road bike. I realize that in North America that is a minority opinion, but there it is.

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    Senior Member cbr9927's Avatar
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    Overpriced? Like this- http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/...0/14797/66270/

    Maybe if I road for money I can myself paying that much for a bicycle.

    Motorcycles are so cheap compared to high end bicycles, you can get a new Kawasaki Ninja 300 for 5k while the bike in the link is 525 bucks less.

    http://ninja300.kawasaki.com/Overview
    Last edited by cbr9927; 03-04-14 at 08:48 PM.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member loimpact's Avatar
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    It would be VERY dangerous for me to test ride one of those! (The Kawi, that is).

    That is just what the doctor ordered in my bachelor years. The wife would leave me like a rocket on its way to the moon if I pulled up in that thing. (smiling ear to ear, of course). And could you imagine the eye-soothing beauty of color matching goodness????.....








    Quote Originally Posted by cbr9927 View Post
    Overpriced? Like this- http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/...0/14797/66270/

    Maybe if I road for money I can myself paying that much for a bicycle.

    Motorcycles are so cheap compared to high end bicycles, you can get a new Kawasaki Ninja 300 for 5k while the bike in the link is 525 bucks less.

    http://ninja300.kawasaki.com/Overview
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by loimpact; 03-04-14 at 10:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Ha ha ha ha ha giantcfr1's Avatar
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    Just to note that like badger1 mentioned about the term cross bike,like Europe there is no hybrid in Japan either, our bikes are refered to as cross bikes, NOT to be confused with Cyclocross bikes which is a different bike all together
    Last edited by giantcfr1; 03-05-14 at 03:36 AM.
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  7. #7
    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    Hmmmm ... interesting question. How one might answer it depends in part on how one reads your intention in asking it. There are two possibilities: you might have looked closely at the spec., and thought that 1980 U.S. is somewhat high for that particular bike? Or, you might be trolling here, and asking the question on the assumption that -- in your opinion -- no one in his/her right mind would pay 1980 U.S. for a "mere hybrid". I'm not for a moment assuming the latter is the case, but it is a possibility; there have been a number of posts very recently on threads here that are predicated on that assumption.
    In the 10+ years I've been a member this is the first somebody implied I was a troll. Don't know whether to be honored or not. Hybrids are great and both my son and brother have them. My amazement was the fact that the bike was priced at what a nice mid level 29er cost. As you can see the specs are not nearly as good for the same money. That's it, no mystery involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    In the 10+ years I've been a member this is the first somebody implied I was a troll. Don't know whether to be honored or not. Hybrids are great and both my son and brother have them. My amazement was the fact that the bike was priced at what a nice mid level 29er cost. As you can see the specs are not nearly as good for the same money. That's it, no mystery involved.
    I hope it's clear I was speaking hypothetically! I apologize for any offence -- none was intended. Once in a while there is a flurry of posts on this board that clearly are motivated by the kind of assumption I posited; yours could have been such a post (clearly it wasn't). I completely agree that the specs don't justify the price of this particular bike.

    While I'm at it, I should also apologize for the length of my response; our winter this year (still a metre of snow on the ground) is obviously getting to me.
    Last edited by badger1; 03-05-14 at 05:34 AM.

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    Senior Member Delmarva's Avatar
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    A bicycle priced at about $2,000 after taxes strikes me as being into the luxury market. I'm sure it is a fine bike that may perform marginally better than it's lower priced relatives. And it certainly is visually attractive. But it is at a price where a higher price is in and of itself part of the attraction.
    Last edited by Delmarva; 03-05-14 at 06:25 AM.

  10. #10
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Am I missing something?
    probably missing spring , and a sunny day
    and not being at work.. posting this question from the company computer..

  11. #11
    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    I hope it's clear I was speaking hypothetically! I apologize for any offence -- none was intended. Once in a while there is a flurry of posts on this board that clearly are motivated by the kind of assumption I posited; yours could have been such a post (clearly it wasn't). I completely agree that the specs don't justify the price of this particular bike.

    While I'm at it, I should also apologize for the length of my response; our winter this year (still a metre of snow on the ground) is obviously getting to me.
    No problem and no offense taken. Winter has been on the long side this year.
    1999 Waterford RSE-11, 1995 Waterford 1200, 1989 Specialized Rockhopper Comp
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    1984 Specialized Stumpjumper, 1986 Specialized Stumpjumper and just way too many projects to list.

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    ... in other -- but not at all unrelated -- news, this just in:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/commuting/n...on-fork-40263/

    It's about time! Two quick observations: 1) if this is successful (aftermarket and with luck OEM), perhaps there's a chance for a lighter version, and 2) I hope this will come in a disc-only version.

    To my mind the return of RS to this market segment is not insignificant.

    Edit: it does come disc-only (or with canti posts), and does have an alum. steerer:
    http://www.sram.com/rockshox/product...gon-gold#specs

    The availability of this may well play into my next bike purchase.
    Last edited by badger1; 03-05-14 at 01:16 PM.

  13. #13
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    but like most bikes NOT WORTH ITS PRICE TAG. All bikes are overpriced, and anything over 1000 is just crazy... Bicycle is a simple machine, R&D is not as expensive as any other motor vehicle, cost to make it is very low comparing to motor vehicle, very little materials needed to build it....yet, its probably the most expensive and overpriced product in the world,
    First,if you think production bikes are expensive,try building your own from the frame up. Second,you should take an economics course. Pay special attention to the topic "economies of scale". Honda will prolly build more Accords this year than Giant will build frames.

    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    especially high end, fragile bicycles.


    Quote Originally Posted by cbr9927 View Post
    Overpriced? Like this- http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/...0/14797/66270/

    Maybe if I road for money I can myself paying that much for a bicycle.

    Motorcycles are so cheap compared to high end bicycles, you can get a new Kawasaki Ninja 300 for 5k while the bike in the link is 525 bucks less.

    http://ninja300.kawasaki.com/Overview
    Not a fair comparo. A 300cc motorcycle isn't at the same end of the spectrum as a full carbon road bike. Compare that Giant to a 900+cc sport bike and you'll be in the ballpark.

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  14. #14
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Dynaryder....you are so brainwashed....Bicycle companies must love you lol I bet building frame myself will cost several k in materials, and add couple hundred per hour to build....yup...you have a point...
    Quick lesson from me - an economist and life long business owner - If there are people willing to pay outranges prices, they will keep selling it. They are charging that much because they can, not because they have to.
    As for fragile high end bikes, its all for weight saving over anything else. I bet you never heard about carbon braking and all the recalls in the last years...that would explain why you are in the dark.
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    Senior Member deerfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Dynaryder....you are so brainwashed....Bicycle companies must love you lol I bet building frame myself will cost several k in materials, and add couple hundred per hour to build....yup...you have a point...
    Quick lesson from me - an economist and life long business owner - If there are people willing to pay outranges prices, they will keep selling it. They are charging that much because they can, not because they have to.
    As for fragile high end bikes, its all for weight saving over anything else. I bet you never heard about carbon braking and all the recalls in the last years...that would explain why you are in the dark.
    I think you misunderstood him. He said "try building your own from the frame up.", which implies that you already have the frame and are adding the components. This is indeed an expensive project and generally can cost more than buying the complete bike.

  16. #16
    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by deerfly View Post
    I think you misunderstood him. He said "try building your own from the frame up.", which implies that you already have the frame and are adding the components. This is indeed an expensive project and generally can cost more than buying the complete bike.
    Don't we all know that. Building your own bike is a lot of fun. But usually not at all cost effective. For me the fun outweighs the cost.
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  17. #17
    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deerfly View Post
    I think you misunderstood him. He said "try building your own from the frame up.", which implies that you already have the frame and are adding the components. This is indeed an expensive project and generally can cost more than buying the complete bike.
    DING-DING-DING

    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    As for fragile high end bikes, its all for weight saving over anything else. I bet you never heard about carbon braking and all the recalls in the last years...that would explain why you are in the dark.
    Carbon braking,yeah,you need special pads for carbon rims. Oh,wait,you meant carbon breaking. Yeah,CF is sooo dangerous. Not like steel. BTW,the folks at Rivendell want to offer you a job as spokes model.

    Just curious,what's more dangerous,CF or toe overlap?

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    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Am I missing something?


    how about a Trek FX instead ,no suspension fork at all , and in a bunch of price points
    to fit what your budget needs are ..


    disc , & under a Grand http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...fx/7_4_fx_disc

  19. #19
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynaryder View Post
    DING-DING-DING



    Carbon braking,yeah,you need special pads for carbon rims. Oh,wait,you meant carbon breaking. Yeah,CF is sooo dangerous. Not like steel. BTW,the folks at Rivendell want to offer you a job as spokes model.

    Just curious,what's more dangerous,CF or toe overlap?
    Hey, ho, I don't know what to say so I say hey, ho lol@dynaryder
    Keep up with facts - not your short imagination. I see you like Google...dig little deeper AND for much longer. You will find enough proof for my point... Hey, ho...You are way behind my friend lmao
    Oh...forgot to add...do you know Martyn may never ride again? I bet you didn't know about that...following your logic, you should send me YT link showing handicapped person riding a bike. I hope you not trying to be a post queen. There is many more way ahead of you. Next time think before you post. I want to read something interesting from you. I know you can do it! lol
    Last edited by lopek77; 03-07-14 at 10:15 AM. Reason: dynaryder is DA man lol
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    If you're referring to poor Martyn Ashton's accident here, how is it relevant? As far as I know from reading about it at the time, his accident was just that: a trials stunt on a high bar that went wrong. That he was doing it on a cf road bike is neither here nor there; the bike didn't break.
    Am I missing something?

  21. #21
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by badger1 View Post
    If you're referring to poor Martyn Ashton's accident here, how is it relevant? As far as I know from reading about it at the time, his accident was just that: a trials stunt on a high bar that went wrong. That he was doing it on a cf road bike is neither here nor there; the bike didn't break.
    Am I missing something?
    Ask Dynaryder...he is the one who posted the link to his video. Im innocent! ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Ask Dynaryder...he is the one who posted the link to his video. Im innocent! ;-)
    I understand that; he posted the video of Martyn Ashton in direct response to your assertion about the alleged fragility of high-end bikes and of carbon fibre breaking, which you then linked implicitly if not directly to Ashton's accident. I still don't see the relevance of that link; Ashton's accident had nothing to do the strength or otherwise of carbon fibre or of high-end bikes.

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    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Yeah,I'm not sure what planet lopek is on. Here,let me spoon feed him.

    You basically said that CF bikes were fragile. To counter this,I posted a link of a guy basically trials-riding a full CF road bike. If you had watched the follow-up video that goes with it,you'd see where he said the bike was completely undamaged by his stunts. I also posted a link to the recall of some steel forks;thus showing that steel isn't some magical material. FYI,I know two folks who have broken steel forks,one at the crown,one in the middle of the leg,while just using them for regular street riding. So carbon isn't delicate,and steel isn't impervious. I then gave you a link to a discussion about Rivendell's anti-carbon FUD(they've since stopped selling that fork) since I figured you were like minded and would find it interesting.

    I have no idea what you're talking about with Martyn's accident. It did not occur while making that video,and was not caused by the failure of anything made out of CF. In fact,I find your 'loling' to be rather disturbing.

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  24. #24
    "LOGIC!" lopek77's Avatar
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    Every material can fail, but carbon fiber is most prone to fail. There was and will be many recalls of cf forks and other components...Its not a secret that cf is strong, but its also very fragile at the same time. I don't have many riding buddies with cf bikes, but all of them had catastrophic failure of their cf components. That includes seat rails, handlebars, fork and frame. And FYI, Martyn Ashton's video was a commercial stunt. His bike was also modified for him to be able to do all these stunt, and was worth around $24000... That price is just plain stupid, unless that bike was made from gold... Also, please don't forget that whatever you saw on that video was an excellent editing...they showed you whatever they wanted you to see...They also say that there was no failure of any of the components...Let's say we believe them.
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    PatronSaintOfDiscBrakes dynaryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    And FYI, Martyn Ashton's video was a commercial stunt.
    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    His bike was also modified for him to be able to do all these stunt,
    No it was not.

    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    and was worth around $24000... That price is just plain stupid, unless that bike was made from gold...
    It won the TdF,that's why it cost so much. If you had read the blurb on YouTube:
    Martyn Ashton takes the 10k carbon road bike used by Team Sky's Bradley Wiggins & Mark Cavendish for a ride with a difference. With a plan to push the limits of road biking as far as his lycra legs would dare, Martyn looked to get his ultimate ride out of the awesome Pinarello Dogma 2. This bike won the 2012 Tour de France - surely it deserves a Road Bike Party!

    Quote Originally Posted by lopek77 View Post
    Also, please don't forget that whatever you saw on that video was an excellent editing...they showed you whatever they wanted you to see...They also say that there was no failure of any of the components...Let's say we believe them.
    Here's the follow-up:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee54EP-nho4

    I have no reason not to believe him. In fact,I'm pretty sure that is something had gone wrong,they would have shown it for comic relief.

    C'dale BBU('05 and '09)/Super Six/Hooligan8and 3,Kona Dew Deluxe,Novara Buzz/Safari,Surly Big Dummy,Marin Pt Reyes,Giant Defy 1,Schwinn DBX SuperSport/Qualifier,Brompton S6L,Dahon Speed Pro TT

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