the popularity of commuting by car is declining, gradually.
#76
Prefers Cicero
I know this is anecdotal.... but I've noticed people in my area are walking, jogging, and even walking dogs in the most extreme weather conditions now-a-days. What does THAT mean? And how are those activities different than cycling? Are joggers that jog in two feet of snow also driving less?
If it's true, it could also mean that some non-bike commuters may be open to taking up bike commuting, or some fair weather commuters are extending their seasons. So your observation, and the observations in the census report, might both reflect (one can hope) some subtle shift in attitudes back to a healthier lifestyle than the lazy, car and comfort dependent one that blossomed in the 20th century. Who knows, maybe most of us in the forum, like you and me and Roody and Mobile 155 and of course I-Like-To-Bike, and everybody else, have simply been well ahead of the curve and the others are just beginning to turn.
Last edited by cooker; 08-20-15 at 09:55 PM.
#77
Prefers Cicero
If you have 100 people in an office and the number of cyclists goes up from 1 to 2, that doesn't mean there's a trend - it could just be random fluctuation. For all you know, next door they lost a cyclist and it cancels out.
But if you have 100 million people working, and the number of bike commuter goes up from 1% to 2%, that's a million extra cyclists and it's a much stronger indication that a real trend is underway, even though, proportionately it's no different from the first example.
Last edited by cooker; 08-21-15 at 07:45 AM.
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I agree, it's still a small portion that cycle, but at the same time, a change at the national level is still a striking finding, when you take scale into account.
If you have 100 people in an office and the number of cyclists goes up from 1 to 2, that doesn't mean there's a trend - it could just be random fluctuation. For all you know, next door they lost a cyclist and it cancels out.
But if you have 100 million people working, and the number of bike commuter goes up from 1% to 2%, that's a million extra cyclists and it's a much stronger indication that a real trend is underway, even though, proportionately its no different from the first example.
If you have 100 people in an office and the number of cyclists goes up from 1 to 2, that doesn't mean there's a trend - it could just be random fluctuation. For all you know, next door they lost a cyclist and it cancels out.
But if you have 100 million people working, and the number of bike commuter goes up from 1% to 2%, that's a million extra cyclists and it's a much stronger indication that a real trend is underway, even though, proportionately its no different from the first example.
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Cooker:
Except if you look at the chart I posted the numbers are much lower than that. In my state where we have better weather for 12 month riding the numbers are less than 170,000. That is just over 1 percent. And we are like seventh in the U.S.
Look at the report by the league of American bicyclists the U.S. Has 882,198 cycling commuters at .62 percent. That leaves 99.38 percent that get to work some other way. That is almost the same percentage as when I first got interested in cycling to commute in the 70s.
I guess I am harder to impress having been into cycling that many years.
Except if you look at the chart I posted the numbers are much lower than that. In my state where we have better weather for 12 month riding the numbers are less than 170,000. That is just over 1 percent. And we are like seventh in the U.S.
Look at the report by the league of American bicyclists the U.S. Has 882,198 cycling commuters at .62 percent. That leaves 99.38 percent that get to work some other way. That is almost the same percentage as when I first got interested in cycling to commute in the 70s.
I guess I am harder to impress having been into cycling that many years.
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I wouldn't know if they were car-free because I never asked. I assume they were only trying to experiment with winter riding to see what's it like. Last winter I've seen somebody on a fat bike around my workplace for the first time ever, I assume it was somebody who just discovered winter riding, seen them few more times after that... Winter mountain biking for recreation has gotten very popular in the last few years, but winter bike commuting not so much.
#81
Sophomoric Member
I agree that if you look only at bicycle commuting numbers in the United States, the study is not encouraging. I don't know if bike commuting will ever be a big part of the commuting mix.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
You're going to have to spend more bucks if you want a larger share of commutes. Most road networks today just weren't designed to handle bikes safely and conveniently. And in the majority of states, we aren't even spending enough money to keep roads drivable, let alone bike ridable. So, while austerity politicians rule the states, I am pessimistic about a large bike share.
I do not believe that laziness, bad weather, or an allergy to snow, are the reasons for low mode shares in the US. That just doesn't make sense when you see that some of the biggest advances have been made in the northern tier of states--Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, and so on. Americans are no lazier than Europeans--quite the opposite if you look at productivity numbers and the annual hours worked on both continents.
It's all about infrastructure, which is all about money money money. With a lack of politicians who understand that wise investments today can lead to big savings tomorrow, I doubt if bikes will prevail in most parts of the US.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
You're going to have to spend more bucks if you want a larger share of commutes. Most road networks today just weren't designed to handle bikes safely and conveniently. And in the majority of states, we aren't even spending enough money to keep roads drivable, let alone bike ridable. So, while austerity politicians rule the states, I am pessimistic about a large bike share.
I do not believe that laziness, bad weather, or an allergy to snow, are the reasons for low mode shares in the US. That just doesn't make sense when you see that some of the biggest advances have been made in the northern tier of states--Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, and so on. Americans are no lazier than Europeans--quite the opposite if you look at productivity numbers and the annual hours worked on both continents.
It's all about infrastructure, which is all about money money money. With a lack of politicians who understand that wise investments today can lead to big savings tomorrow, I doubt if bikes will prevail in most parts of the US.
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#82
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I agree that if you look only at bicycle commuting numbers in the United States, the study is not encouraging. I don't know if bike commuting will ever be a big part of the commuting mix.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
Cycling has been around for generations it is a very mature technology. Any large swings in it's numbers would be suspect! Bicycling has always followed trends. For whatever various reasons cycling popularity rises and falls. Bicycle sales and general consensus indicate the trend in cycling is currently moving downward.
Local government figures that show numbers in contradiction with known trends cannot be considered reliable. And cast a shadow on the numbers nationally where dollars have been invested in cycling/green infrastructure. Where nationally the green investments have been demonstrated to be corrupt.
#83
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You're going to have to spend more bucks if you want a larger share of commutes. Most road networks today just weren't designed to handle bikes safely and conveniently. And in the majority of states, we aren't even spending enough money to keep roads drivable, let alone bike ridable. So, while austerity politicians rule the states, I am pessimistic about a large bike share.
Municipalities that reduce road spending by maintaining less pavement per capita gain more credit to spend on other projects, but part of what's going on right now in public finance is growing awareness that municipal debt and spending is not just free money for the people who get funded by the contracts. Debt has consequences at various levels and the challenge is to reduce debt and spending without public outcries to cut the very infrastructure and spending that allow people to save money on transportation, i.e. bike/pedestrian infrastructure and public transit.
I do not believe that laziness, bad weather, or an allergy to snow, are the reasons for low mode shares in the US. That just doesn't make sense when you see that some of the biggest advances have been made in the northern tier of states--Portland, Minneapolis, Chicago, New York, and so on. Americans are no lazier than Europeans--quite the opposite if you look at productivity numbers and the annual hours worked on both continents.
It's all about infrastructure, which is all about money money money. With a lack of politicians who understand that wise investments today can lead to big savings tomorrow, I doubt if bikes will prevail in most parts of the US.
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Local government figures that show numbers in contradiction with known trends cannot be considered reliable. And cast a shadow on the numbers nationally where dollars have been invested in cycling/green infrastructure. Where nationally the green investments have been demonstrated to be corrupt.
If you are convinced that the abundant use of unlimited resources is good, it's unclear why you would want to limit the use of energy, land, and other resources for producing bike infrastructure, transit, and other green investments. If you truly believe everything is unlimited, why are you for limiting green?
Last edited by tandempower; 08-21-15 at 07:16 AM.
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This is just ONE reason why there should be a separation between church and state. The environmental religious movement has been welcomed into government offices and money spent on religious beliefs. This is wrong!
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My God man.... have you never seen the news? BILLIONS of green dollars have simply gone missing. They weren't invested or misspent. They are entirely unaccounted for. I think the best word for that is STOLEN. This irrational screaming that all green spending is good... is a diversion. Stealing is a crime and wrong.
This is just ONE reason why there should be a separation between church and state. The environmental religious movement has been welcomed into government offices and money spent on religious beliefs. This is wrong!
#87
Sophomoric Member
My God man.... have you never seen the news? BILLIONS of green dollars have simply gone missing. They weren't invested or misspent. They are entirely unaccounted for. I think the best word for that is STOLEN. This irrational screaming that all green spending is good... is a diversion. Stealing is a crime and wrong.
Lacking comparative evidence of any sort, I would expect green spending to be no more corrupt than spending that's lobbied for by the oil companies and big mining/manufacturing corporations.
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Last edited by Roody; 08-21-15 at 07:55 AM.
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I didn't think anybody could possibly know if any car free people are in the vicinity by seeing cycle tracks in the snow, or of the presence of "car free" people by seeing more or less cyclists. Apparently some of our "LCFer" comrades do have the capability to deduce that such sightings are evidence of the presence car free people, more or less.
#90
Prefers Cicero
Apparently you're able to deduce that (and many other things) about other people here, also based on little or no evidence, so you fit right in!
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But you could challenge yourself. Do a little homework/research... open your mind. You will in all likelihood fail. But the facts are out there. And your potential for growth is as good today.... as it ever will be in the future.
Here let me google that for you!
Last edited by Dave Cutter; 08-21-15 at 11:44 AM.
#92
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Rain . . probably the best excuse for not bike commuting.
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Sure an observation or anecdote about more people cycling in adverse condition could mean that, or it could mean anything you would like it to mean. Just like the OP article could mean something about growing popularity of being car free by choice; or maybe not. Take your pick.
#94
Senior Member
Total driving could also be going up because fuel prices have been dropping. It is another mistake Miller made when they said there would be no new oil discoveries and we would be out of oil by the 90s. Shale oil pretty much proved that wrong. Now there is a glut and prices have been dropping.
I'm not aware of anyone who ever said we'd be OUT of oil by 90s. Plenty of predictions that we'd hit PEAK oil by 2000-2010. Peak oil just means that we've extracted half the available oil, which means what is left is equal to all the oil that has ever been pumped. Hardly the definition of being "out of oil". Fracking has allowed us to squeeze more oil out of existing fields. That, combined with reduced demand due to the recession, has likely pushed the "peak" back.
There is no way that oil production can keep rising to keep pace with demands of developing countries.
#96
Sophomoric Member
Of course I don't! I don't expect you to believe or accept anything that goes against your preconceived ideas. Paradigms can get concrete-hard in older peoples minds. I really would be shocked and surprised if you ever changed.
But you could challenge yourself. Do a little homework/research... open your mind. You will in all likelihood fail. But the facts are out there. And your potential for growth is as good today.... as it ever will be in the future.
Here let me google that for you!
But you could challenge yourself. Do a little homework/research... open your mind. You will in all likelihood fail. But the facts are out there. And your potential for growth is as good today.... as it ever will be in the future.
Here let me google that for you!
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I'm not aware of anyone who ever said we'd be OUT of oil by 90s. Plenty of predictions that we'd hit PEAK oil by 2000-2010. Peak oil just means that we've extracted half the available oil, which means what is left is equal to all the oil that has ever been pumped. Hardly the definition of being "out of oil". Fracking has allowed us to squeeze more oil out of existing fields. That, combined with reduced demand due to the recession, has likely pushed the "peak" back.
There is no way that oil production can keep rising to keep pace with demands of developing countries.
There is no way that oil production can keep rising to keep pace with demands of developing countries.
We can't just continue sprawling out by clearing, paving, and developing land in any which way. Remaining oil will be conserved for as long as possible, if we're lucky, and congestion and overpaving/overdevelopment will also get reduced in the process of developing smarter land-use practices and transportation/commuting methods.
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I agree that if you look only at bicycle commuting numbers in the United States, the study is not encouraging. I don't know if bike commuting will ever be a big part of the commuting mix.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
Based on the rapid increase of number in Europe just in the last couple years-- where real improvements were made in bike infrastructure-- I remain somewhat optimistic. I have always thought that 10% of commutes by bike in North America would be a reasonable goal, given the very modest improvements that we see in the infrastructure at the best of times.
#100
Prefers Cicero
$619 billion missed from federal transparency site
It simply reports that data on how money was spent on a raft of federal projects is not included in a website that is supposed to report on that spending, collecting aggregate data from hundreds of agencies and departments. It does NOT mean the money was misspent or is "missing" even though no doubt some of it was misspent or is not accounted for. In this case, it simply means the government's aggregate reporting website has to be improved.
Last edited by cooker; 08-21-15 at 03:41 PM.