Ekdog

I-Like-To-Bike

What is this Joey stuff about the sanctity of "our rooms" and the Joey Rule of Politeness that requires all responses to be in agreement with what "we know" ?

Where did you find the requirement to start new threads; does it come from the same place as the Joey Rules of Politeness that requires either support for whatever "ideas" are posted on a BF list, or silence?

And why are you so concerned/obsessed about my post count?

Roody

I'm heartened to see that there have been a couple threads from newish members recently. Actuall, BF is a great place to start posting if you're new to internet forums. It's such a large forum that even in a remote backwater like LCF, you will get a lot of responses fairly soon. this means that the feed back will be quick and diverse.

A couple words of acvice to those who are new at posting new threads:

• Good threads are "curated" by the OP (original poster or post). Come back often to respond to messages. You can gently try to steer people to the topic you wanted to discuss, but only to a certain extent. After a while you have to let it go. But it can be very interesting to see where other people go with your idea, and you will probably learn something you hadn't thought about when you wrote the OP.
• Be prepared for some negativity. If you can't stand that, you probably won't be happy with the whole forum experience.
• At some point you will get tired of the thread, or the question you asked will be answered to your satisfaction. At that point, it's OK to just thank people and bow out.
• Some ideas just don't work at provoking a good discussion. Just analyze it and move on. don't give up--we all have duds, even after many years of experience. OTOH, some of the best threads have been started by people who have no experience whatsoever.

BillyD

I will add this. If you're judged to be consistently disruptive, or intent on constantly trying to discredit LCF, or you're simply being a chronic malcontent, that's not going to be tolerated either. If you don't agree with LCF just go away, stop slinging mud, find something else to do.

JoeyBike

There are universal rules of politeness. But someone raised by wolves would have no clue. A Google search might be in order. This is a good start: https://www.universalclass.com/artic...-etiquette.htm

As for the post count. 24,000+ and only 20 were not designed to aggravate other posters. Then wandering into a thread ABOUT starting new threads with dissonance is just outrageous given the math at hand that proves there is very little experience in the field of starting threads.

I defend any poster's right to disagree with something. Disagreeing with virtually everything might represent a disorder. Just trying to help.
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cooker

Thanks. I don't mind being attacked, but I would like to understand why

wolfchild

I've never seen a non-car-free poster attack an LCF'er on tbis forum. I've seen plenty of disagreements between posters who own cars and those who don't but I have never actually seen a personal attack upon an LCF'er...It's the car-free bunch who constantly attack and demonize those who don't agree with their LCF agendas...Being car-free doesn't mean anything on this forum... I was called all kinds of names even when I was living car-free all because I didn't always agree with 3-4 individuals on this list.

1989Pre 

For many of us, there is an ethical component to our decision to go car-free. This is entirely reasonable and, I believe, a valid emphasis in this forum. Cooker has alluded to the fact that he objects to a "political" current in the forum. This is why he is posting and recommending that members post at Car Free with a "different emphasis".
Although many riders choose to go car-free for economic or other reasons, there is nothing "political" about doing the right thing.
If I have misjudged his intent in any way, then I apologize, but I will fiercely defend the ethical standpoint of going car-free.

steve-in-kville 

As I read older threads I am seeing this trend. It appears the same handful of people show up to good, well-intended threads and turn them inside-out. Let it go!

10 Wheels

Hit the Red Report button to alert mods when you see problems.

cooker

Yes I believe you have misunderstood my intent. I personally like the wide ranging and sometimes political discussions. My comments were addressed to those persons who say they don't and that the forum is too dominated by those threads. Instead of posting in threads they say they don't like, and complaining about them, why don't they start the threads they want to see? The forum is whatever people make of it

JoeyBike

Starting a thread comes with responsibility.

First, you have to be willing to MAINTAIN your thread by checking in on it and keeping it going on track. This is a commitment to almost every day, or several times a day, showing up and contributing/policing your thread.

Second, you have to THINK of some topic for the new thread. Over in the commuting or A&S thread it's pretty easy - "what happened to you today" or "who got smoked on a bike today news" are two big topics over there. It's a little harder for LCF people to "dream up" questions or topics IMO.

Third, you have to be WILLING to take a bunch of abuse and subject yourself to snide remarks delivered by people who make a hobby of invading good threads and annoying people or even getting the thread locked. Just look at this thread for example. A good topic blown up by career trolls and corrigans.

So perhaps these points prevent many from starting posts (more than once anyway).
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Rollfast

Reading this in my email summary I almost forget what it's about, BillyD. I think we need an RPG section or something to let them all 'battle it out'.


As for me, I'm unsubscribing. I'm a WAM-V (wanting a vehicle person), for traveling reasons.

cooker

I'm sorry to hear that (the unsubscribing part, not the car - do what you gotta do). Why not just start the kind of thread you would prefer to see here?

JoeyBike

I'm renting a car for 4 days starting this Wed. It's not a sin bro. Live the way you want. Hope you don't quit BF. Actually, I don't think they let you quit (delete your account) here.

Roody

I think it would be a good idea for you to re-read cooker's posts with an open mind. I think he's trying to encourage people to express different viewpoints, not discourage them.

For example, people who do not enjoy following threads about the ethics or politics of LCF could start more threads that deal with other subjects--rather than constantly complaining about the forum being "too political" or "too philosophical".

Ekdog

Yes, I strongly agree and, based on his posts, I know Cooker does, too. Unfortunately, there are others who are not at all interested in LCF who object to any mention of ethics. A reference to the environment or climate change, for example, will throw them into a fit of rage, and they'll label the offending poster as "smug," "self-satisfied," "a true believer," etc.

cooker

You've said some pretty harsh or mocking things yourself - are you sure you weren't being 'attacked' for that?

mconlonx

You're not looking very hard, then... I've started plenty of threads (nevermind mere posts) with ulterior motives or merely to troll, and apparently the number of threads started for this reason on my part exceeds ILTB's total thread count.

mconlonx

I think y'all are on the same side of this battel. And FWIW, Cooker is one of the more thoughtful, literate members willing to call people (like me) on their BS. I appreciate his contributions, did not read anything untoward into his OP or follow-up posts, and believe he is sincere in his observation that this place could be rejuvenated if people posted appropriate LCF threads.

That is, unless there's simply nothing left to say, regarding LCF? Are we all done here...?

mconlonx

Good point -- maybe a "Why I stopped LCF" thread?

badger1

First in bold: Agreed.
Second in bold: quite possibly.

mconlonx

Well, people like to express their differences. For every ethical LCFer, there is a practical or economic LCFer who scoffs at ethical reasons to LCF.

For most things in life, I lean toward the direction of economic/practical, and not too many people would call me an ethical/political believer or actor. So when someone claims to be LCF for ethical reasons -- environmental, where climate change is concerned, etc. -- I need a more finite, quantitative answer for their action. OK, fine, you're doing this for environmental reasons or to mitigate climate change. Great, what's your contribution to this by living LCF?

I ask such questions not to be mean, but really, truthfully, out of curiosity. I don't know the answer, but I hope that those who claim to be doing it for these reasons do... And if they answer, "Well, if enough people/everyone did this...", sorry, not good enough, and it's a deflection.

When this further tilts into any kind of argument regarding the basis for environmental impact and/or even the existence of climate change, then a thread has gone completely off course and into the realm of P&R.

Maybe a corollary to Cooker's OP: a thread only goes completely off the rails if you let it. Stop responding to/arguing with trolls or those who you fundamentally disagree with, and they'll get bored and move along. Just because someone disagrees with your views does not mean you need to engage them. Especially when it is politically topical.

Lucillle

That is such a wise observation!
If you start threads about what interests you, and ignore posts by people who just want to start something, most everyone except the pot stirrers will be happier.
I realize the some bike aficionados have probably 'heard it all' but like the site anyway. Some of those people make an effort to answer questions and help, others make it hard for those of us who want help.

No matter how fat and juicy the worm is, don't take the bait. The fishermen will just go elsewhere after a while.

Ekdog

It's "not good enough" for what? For whom?

"A deflection"? Hardly. Whether you like it or not, you share the planet with other people. Take it down to the level of your town or city. Compare it to litter. Do you drop yours in the street? If not, why not? Others do. You could argue that it's easier and more practical for you than holding on to it until you find a bin. Why not just toss it onto the ground? Who cares about the commons?