stronglight

Hi Folks,

First, let me briefly share my story. I've been contentedly without a car for over 10 years now. This was ever since an EX-girlfriend had totalled my Honda Prelude and I then began to just commute by bike for what I fully intended to be only a brief time while finding a car which I would REALLY want to buy. Unexpectedly, I re-discovered the sheer joy of cycling - which I had strayed from for many years. Ultimately, I completely forgot about looking for a new car and instead began accumulating vintage bikes, and simply doing EVERYTHING on two wheels with pedals. I'm still happy, healthy, and admittedly a bit crazy. ~ Pushing the limits of how bikes are used or perceived seems to have lately become my personal obsession, and to be quite honest, I don't mind at all being viewed as "that crazy old guy with all the cool vintage bikes who we always see riding all over town."

MY QUESTION: And I hope you'll for give this newby to this forum if it's been covered before...

I came across this web site showing a bike which I would definitely like to buy - especially just as a frameset. However, I can't seem to find a US source for the bikes.

Here is the link for the Yuba Mundo bikes. Worth wandering around the website to view the various photos of the bike in actual use on the streets in Europe. -- It's built to carry up to 200 kilos [440 lbs] of cargo or even additional people.

I typically haul 40+ pounds of groceries on a couple of my 700c road bikes, and have even carried a complete bike packed for shipping to the local Post Office on a rear rack. But THIS looks like a truly wonderful design (and it would allow me to become even MORE eccentric). Hope someone can direct me to a domestic source for these bikes.

Thanks!
Bob

rogerfisher

Unless I'm mistaken, the mfgs web site says the following is a distributor. Perhaps you can arrange something with them.

utility bikes United States - Dealers + Individual inquiries
Rock The Bike - Paul Freedman
1336 Channing way
Berkeley CA-94702
Phone : +1-415-681-1275
sales-usa@yubaride.com | www.rockthebike.com

Best of wishes!

Roger

East Hill

I thought I had just seen something on this:

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ighlight=mundo

The last time I remembered seeing it mentioned prior to this I don't think there was a distributor in the US.

East Hill

Roody

Welcome to the LCF, stronglight.

I can't answer your question about Yuba Mundo. I am wondering why you prefer it to an xtracycle, since the concept seems similar?

stronglight

Yikes! ... you shouldn't have started me on this rant ... I've just had a few long discussions with local builders and mechanics on the subject. It seems that I may be the only one outside of either Germany or Western Africa who sees the appeal of a dedicated cargo bike ...

So... Here goes:

It does not seem at all the same to me. There is a big difference between modifying a bike not intended for the purpose (by adding on enough additional tubing to build another complete bicycle) and starting from scratch and designing from the ground up. That would be like comparing a complete custom designed classic, purpose built, loaded touring bike, made with all the fittings, components and accessories to work as a balanced unit,... to one of my old road bikes onto which I've simply clamped on a couple racks and a battery headlight.

Some people might like the home-made garage-built jury-rigged look of the Xtracycle... I don't. And in addition to unnecessary weight and complexity, it is a compromise to the superior strength of a solitary frame. I feel no urgent need for yet another bike. However, I'm looking for a viable example of this style to serve as the design basis for building a similar, but less basic bike, with somewhat lighter weight tubing (where practical), and internally routed cables running to the left rear dropout -for a Rohloff 14-speed rear hub rather than an exposed derailleur system, and with a few additional practical accessories - such as a frame-integrated 2-arm kickstand (not a bolt-on) and fender mounts. The Yuba seems to be the best example I've come across so far, and clearly designed with simplicity, strength and durability as it's basis - all of which are attributes I greatly value.

I've seen some very impressive bikes successfully modified to carry literally hundreds of pounds of cargo over the roughest terrain, and designed and constructed by truly brilliant masters of innovation... the Viet Minh and Viet Cong during the 1950s-1970s Vietnam wars. But, those were fabricated from desperate necessity, and using only the modest materials at hand. Many of these are still in use today in the streets of Hanoi, and are still used for the same reasons: economic expediency.

As for the Xtracycle... I've never seen photos of an Xtracycle carrying seriously heavy loads. Only cutsie snapshots with light loads, such as: ... a puppy sitting in a side mounted box ... loaded with small-ish lightweight parcels... hauling a guitar... a big bag of styrofoam peanuts... camping panniers (which I could also carry on a road bike)... a small child ... and a large but not at all heavy Xtracycle kit box [I've carried a complete bike in a factory bike box measuring 8" x 27" x 52" on a road bike with a rear rack, so size alone does not impress me].

Also, I've seen an Xtracycle in the shop being mounted on a customer's bike and tend to agree with the mechanic fitting it that there are simply lots of often awkward compromizes whenever you are dealing with ANY "one-size-fits-all" additions or modifications to a bike, even something as basic and simple as mounting a standard aftermarket rear rack is never the same as one designed for a particular bike.

As far as the strength of the Xtracycle in particular (versus other alternatives and add-on trailers), I'm really not impressed with the design or construction when I see broken stays like THIS ... [smaller image below] ... note the chainstay which had cracked and completely separated, just in front of the forged dropout [Doh!] and notice the ZIP-TIES! and accessory clips needed for mounting the fender... the lack of simple brazed-on eyelets to facilitate mounting a fender on such an elaborate cargo bike extension system seems a careless design oversight ... the bikes owner must have really mourned the loss of the ones which were on his existing frameset.

I think it is unfortunate that Surly now claims ownership of Xtracycle because that means there is less likelyhood that a true cargo bike will ever come from Surly. Notice that the bike shown in this photo appears to be a Surly... and perhaps this will their alternative to offering a real long frame bike.

Roody

stronglight,

Thanks for the info. Very useful!

Domromer

I agree, I'd much rather gets a purpose built utility bike than an extracycle.

I'd also wish they made a more utility type trailer that is less than the bob type trailers. I'd like to build one myself, but I am the least handy person in the world!

tfahrner

I often carry in excess of 200lbs. The rear wheel strength is the real limiting factor, as it will likely be for the Yuba, too:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/448420598/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/448420944/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/529960158/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/433059309/
https://clevercycles.com/?p=56

But you are right that Xtracycle's conversion kit wasn't really intended to compete with purpose-built haulers. Their concept was to keep it light enough so the bike remains viable as just a bike. You say it adds as much material as a whole 'nother frame: that's certainly untrue. There's a lot more metal in a Yuba frame (https://www.yubaride.com/Images/utility-bicycle-400.gif) than in an Xtracycle plus typical MTB. Yes the Yuba seems plenty strong, but I disagree about it representing a superior economy of means or promising more desirable "designed" ride characteristics than a judiciously assembled Xtracycle conversion. A lot of the structure rear of the seat tube of current (prototype) Yubas strikes me as rather needlessly busy, while failing, along with the Kona Ute, to take advantage of the modular accessory system developed and developing for Xtracycle-standard longtails. Plus I think the cockpit is too short for the steepness of the seat tube angle, and it's one-size-fits all, with very limited gearing choices. Where the Yuba appears to shine is in the dollar-to-capacity ratio. It was designed basically for developing world conditions where that's paramount. You want to fit it with a Rohloff, eh?

Xtracycles have had braze-on fender eyelets now for years. You're looking at an early production run. Out of many thousands sold, the rate of breakage is tiny, generally with people undertaking heavily laden transcontinental offroad expeditions and professional messengers.

You have it all wrong. Surly neither owns nor claims to own Xtracycle. Surly's parent company QBP now distributes Xtracycle parts, along with parts from lots of other independent companies. Surly is however producing a "true cargo bike" frame on the Xtracycle standard, the Big Dummy: https://clevercycles.com/?p=150 . Surly no more owns Xtracycle than do the many other builders who have built bikes around Xtracycle's modular rack system:
https://clevercycles.com/?p=194
https://clevercycles.com/?p=179
https://clevercycles.com/?p=152
https://clevercycles.com/?p=137
https://clevercycles.com/bike/xt/xtravois.html

That last one (mine, 2003, Rohloff-equipped) can carry a bit: https://clevercycles.com/bike/movepdx...s/Image10.html

stronglight

THANK YOU, tfahrner !!!
I really appreciate all the info!

I was evidently mis-informed about the Surly-Xtra connection. A friend had cited a comment made by an exhibitor from Surly at Interbike who may have (ahem) mis-implied the affiliation when made claims of "their continued support of Xtracycle's mission..."

Great to see the Vanilla bikes too. I have great respect and admiration for them. Always beautifully built, from what I've seen.

I'm glad to see that builders are going with lower top bar designs for their frames. This is an "issue" I've had seeing some Xtracycle build-ups. Greater ease of step-over or even step-through frames becomes increasingly important when carrying both more bulky and heavier loads. Photos like this one from the Bike Move link which you shared are truly inspirational - a delight for my misty eyes to view. Looks like Portland may be the place for me [... Damn, if only it were not so rainy.]... yep, Portland or maybe Southeast Asia. I know of one former San Francisco bike messenger who has now made the Great Gray North his new home. Now seeing photos like This I'm really beginning to understand the appeal.

Great Photos!


As for the Rohloff hub idea... I've had an opportunity to ride a friends touring bike equipped with one. I loved the concept and the user-simplicity of the shifting system. Seemed like a great idea to me. And a fully enclosed gear-hub seems like a wonderful idea for a serious City/Cargo bike which will likely be exposed to all weather or road conditions a bike might ever be subjected to, ... and better protected from un-intended impact damage than a rear derailleur, ... and of course very agreeable to a considerably enclosed chainguard set-up.

Admittedly, there is the somewhat high ... okay, make that the VERY CONSIDERABLE ... cost factor involved [$1,000.], so clearly not a good choice for a developing nation World bike like the Yuba was intended to be. But otherwise I like the design and impressive quality of the Rohloff.

Thanks again tfahrner for all the valuable insight you've shared! ~ You're Awesome Dude!

This is exactly why I drifted over to this forum!

Too many bikes already... and still looking for just one more... if it's the RIGHT one.

East Hill

You get used to the rain...

And here I thought it was because it was because of me and wahoonc being equally considered "that crazy old guy [gal, in my case] with all the cool vintage bikes who we always see riding all over town." .

However, tfahrner's post was most illuminating.

East Hill

rhm

I, too, would prefer a bike with a frame built for the purpose of carrying heavy loads; I've commented on the Yuba Mundo elsewhere --my question is still: why the big wheels? 20" wheels are stronger, handle better, and would get the weight lower.
That said, the Xtracycle exists, and the Yuba Mundo, for practical North American purposes, does not. So I got me an Xtracycle off Craigslist and built it up around an old MTB I found in the trash... and I really like it. It is not my first choice, and it has many shortcomings... but... well, it exists. It's a real option. And as far as I can tell, it's the only one.

Elkhound

Unless something has changed recently, Surley does not own Xtracycle; however, it is in the process of producing what they call the "Big Dummy" which will take Xtracycle accessories without having the problems of the cobbled-together aspect of the X.

As for heavy loads, would you consider four cases of wine 'heavy'? Because I have carried as much on mine.

Also, if you want a purpose-built cargo bike, what is wrong with one of these: https://www.dutchbikes.us ?

Abneycat

The Big Dummy has been a long time coming, but it appears to be around the corner now. Surly's website has it listed for a February release!

I'd held off on the Xtracycle for a while now. I can only keep one bike around, whatever it is has to be able to handle a wide variety of tasks, and my love aside from using the bike for everyday use, is expedition touring. After having read the accounts of the riders at ridingthespine, it seems like the freeradical is a tough system well suited to hauling around the city, but it meets its maker when used loaded in extended wilderness runs.

The Chupacabra is very neat looking, but seems too built up for city use. The Big dummy looks like its got what it takes to handle both the city and the wilderness, loaded.

Well, that might be a bit preemptive considering the bike isn't out yet, but Surly has always made a great bike.

Elkhound

We've heard that song before. In the words of Alice in Wonderland, "Jam yesterday, jam tomorrow, but never jam today."

Cosmoline

I agree with you that the Yuba is a different animal than the xtracycle, esp. for hard core cargo use. There's been a growing interest in dutch style utlity bikes as well. Importers have been popping up stateside.

Until I can get a serious utility bike, I've had good luck with the BOB trailer. It's rugged and hauls as much as I need. Max advertised is 70 lbs or so but I've put over a hundred on it. Between that and the back rack and backpack I can carry 200 lbs on my winter ride.

MyBikeGotStolen

Says here you can order the Mundo in the US...$750

https://www.rockthebike.com/utility/mundo

edit:just saw that the first ones should be available January 2008

rockthebike

Thank you, mybikegotstolen. The link you have above is good today. The price of a single speed Mundo is now $799, and a six-speed version is available for $899. There is also an 18 speed upgrade kit for the six speed model that goes for $69. Great info above about the primary differences between an XtraCycle based bike vs. a dedicated cargo bike such as the Mundo. Readers can check out the site below for more info on the Mundo, and accessories available. Rock the Bike is in the U.S. in Berkeley, CA.

www.rockthebike.com

Elkhound

I wish you did offer just the frameset. If I were to get a Mundo, I'd make certain changes right away (e.g. change the saddle, put in an IHG, perhaps a few other things) and it would probably be more convenient to just start with a frame and fork--after all, why pay for parts you're going to discard right away?

Robert Foster

I know this was a old revived forum but doesn't Surley now offer a Big Dummy already built?

Elkhound

Yes, but one has the option of going either way; not so with the Yuba Mundo. One can with the Rans Hammertruck. I don't know about the Kona Ute or the Madsen.

rockthebike

We can make a Mundo frame and fork kit available to you. It's not a regular stock item at this point but we do have a few extra frame sets in stock. Please contact us for pricing.

www.rockthebike.com

Elkhound

Thanks, rockthebike; I was only speaking generally; I'm not in the market for another cargo bike right now, and since I already have a Surly Big Dummy (Stoked!), if I were going for another one it would be something in the 'long john' family, like an Organic Engines Long Juan, a Metrofeits, a HPM Long Hauler, or a CETMA Cargo Bike.

JusticeZero

Has anyone mentioned the.. Kona? Ute, or the Bilenky cargo bike? And isn't there an American-made Bakfiets design out of somewhere in Oregon?

Allen

https://www.bikeforums.net/utility-cycling/485469-new-american-cargo-bike.html
You can watch its evolution in that thread.

Elkhound

https://www.cetmacargo.com/
https://www.metrofiets.com/
https://hpm.catoregon.org/?page_id=7

Any of these three could qualify as an "American-made Bakfiets designt out of somewhere in Oregon."

Then there's this:

https://organicengines.com/mystery-machine/

Which is out of Florida.

Here's the page for Bilenkey: https://www.bilenky.com/Cargo_Main_Page.html

I have no practical experience, but looking at the Bilenkey as opposed to the others, I see that the Bilenkey cargo platform is up over the front wheel, as opposed to behind and below. If anyone has ridden both, I'll defer to his knowledge, but it occurs to me that the Bilenkey machines have a higher center of gravity and therefore would be less stable.