Understanding Backlash Against Car-Free Advocacy
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[QUOTE=Ekdog;16467868]You are correct. There are more important problems than having fun. And I will agree that there are plenty of reasons to advocate cycling other than fun and there is nothing wrong with having an agenda.
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[QUOTE=lakhotason;16467945]Is it okay to discuss these issues in a public forum?
#178
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://www.slate.com/articles/life/h...tegration.html
I did not realize school desegregation was so significant in suburban sprawl, since it happened before my life, and my high school history was more cheerleading than informative.
I did not realize school desegregation was so significant in suburban sprawl, since it happened before my life, and my high school history was more cheerleading than informative.
#179
Sophomoric Member
Because the listener perceives you as saying "You are certainly a carbon polluter and also pollute the environment in other ways. Get rid of a necessary part of your life (car) in order to be as environmentally holier-than-thou as me." ...even if they claim otherwise to be environmentally aware and active.
You are attacking them and their cherished beliefs -- regardless of the bottom line situational reality -- why do you think you would not get backlash/criticism? Such responses seem to be just a part of general human nature, not limited to this particular debate.
Were I to argue car-free advocacy, I'd much more stress the immediate positive aspects of being car-free, rather than pointing accusatory -- or even the perception of being accusatory -- fingers at car drivers as polluters, or any environmental aspect.
It's akin to arguing about vegetarianism -- when political/ethical vegetarians delve into saving the world and animals, my eyes roll; when I advocate vegetarianism, it's from a strictly self-interest POV. Health aspects, mainly, but also good and regular pooping, smelling better in general, lower cost at the grocery store, etc.
You are attacking them and their cherished beliefs -- regardless of the bottom line situational reality -- why do you think you would not get backlash/criticism? Such responses seem to be just a part of general human nature, not limited to this particular debate.
Were I to argue car-free advocacy, I'd much more stress the immediate positive aspects of being car-free, rather than pointing accusatory -- or even the perception of being accusatory -- fingers at car drivers as polluters, or any environmental aspect.
It's akin to arguing about vegetarianism -- when political/ethical vegetarians delve into saving the world and animals, my eyes roll; when I advocate vegetarianism, it's from a strictly self-interest POV. Health aspects, mainly, but also good and regular pooping, smelling better in general, lower cost at the grocery store, etc.
It is purely ansurd to believe that smugness is any part of the environmental message. It's for real, people: If you don't voluntarilily drive less, in a few years you won't be able to drive at all. Why should that message hurt somebody's feelings or make them angry? The rational response is to do something positive or constructive about the problem, not to call the messenger names.
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Your car-free lifestyle is laudable, but I'm surprised you're in a living car-free forum discussing this if having fun is really the only thing you find worthwhile about cycling. Or do you have a hidden agenda, one that includes the issues that you enumerate here? Why do you insist that discussing them should be taboo? I'm really at a loss to understand your thinking on this.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
#181
Sophomoric Member
https://www.slate.com/articles/life/h...tegration.html
I did not realize school desegregation was so significant in suburban sprawl, since it happened before my life, and my high school history was more cheerleading than informative.
I did not realize school desegregation was so significant in suburban sprawl, since it happened before my life, and my high school history was more cheerleading than informative.
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"Think Outside the Cage"
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Seriously I don't understand your question. What hidden agenda? What issues? What taboo? You're making this far too complicated.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
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Your car-free lifestyle is laudable, but I'm surprised you're in a living car-free forum discussing this if having fun is really the only thing you find worthwhile about cycling. Or do you have a hidden agenda, one that includes the issues that you enumerate here? Why do you insist that discussing them should be taboo? I'm really at a loss to understand your thinking on this.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
#184
Sophomoric Member
Seriously I don't understand your question. What hidden agenda? What issues? What taboo? You're making this far too complicated.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
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You're talking about cycling as hobby or sport. People ride bikes for many other reasons besides fun, in the real world. Especially for transportation and for exercise, or to save money. I think you're one of those people who likes to behave as if there are no real problems or issues, and that it's a waste of time to try to make life better. You're really more of a grasshopper than an ant, I guess.
As for problems and issues, you have no reason to say that I behave as if they are not real. To the contrary, my behavior addresses the real problems.
I hope being a grasshopper is a good thing but I kinda think it's not.
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I didn't say cycling for any reason other than fun was finger-wagging. I am saying that calling a person "bizarre" for going car free for "selfish" reasons is, quite frankly, bizarre and is the epitome of finger-wagging. I'm walking the walk and you're still wagging your finger at me only because I ain't walking to your cadence.
Last edited by lakhotason; 02-04-14 at 06:24 PM.
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#188
Prefers Cicero
And by acting in my best self interest I remove one car from the street, remove the emissions from the air, lower my chances of killing or seriously injuring anyone with my car to zero, and at the same time advocate a car free life not by word but by action. And you find a problem with me acting in my own best self interest?
I think this illustrates why there is a backlash against car free living. It's the agenda that goes along with it. I ride a bike because it's fun. That's the only reason. All the benefits that accrue to society aren't good enough. It is as if it is more required to talk the talk than it is just to ride my bike because it's fun.
#189
Prefers Cicero
Seriously I don't understand your question. What hidden agenda? What issues? What taboo? You're making this far too complicated.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
I ride my bike because it is fun. If it were not fun I would not ride my bike. People ride bikes first and foremost because it is fun to ride bikes. If you wish people to ride bikes you remind them of the fun of riding a bike. You do not wag your finger at them and tell them they are wrong. Remember the whole point is to get people to ride bikes. If that's an agenda then so be it.
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You're right. If everybody doesn't change their behavior then we're sunk and there is no doubt about it. Where we disagree is how to change that behavior.
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Do you go to work every day because it is fun? Change your baby's diaper because it's fun? Wait your turn in a lineup because it's fun? No, a lot of stuff you do probably sucks, but you do it because you're a mature and responsible person. What's wrong with riding a bike for mature and responsible reasons? (and because it is fun?)
#192
Prefers Cicero
Shame on you
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Desegregation didn't cause sprawl, even though segregation certainly caused the racial makeup of suburbia. If it wasn't for racism, we would still have suburban sprawl, but there wouldn't be "white" suburbs surrounding "black" cities. In a free society, the racial composition of all communities would be more equal.
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In other words they are doing just what car free advocates are only from the perspective of the Majority? That would make car free the backlash to their message.
#195
Prefers Cicero
So how much of the backlash against car-free advocacy do you think is truly grass-roots reaction by the public and how much does it reflect public opinion being manipulated by advertisers, public relations people and so on, working in the interests of the real estate, oil, car and other industries?. Are the people who think car-free or environmental advocates are preachy etc. actually thinking for themselves, or are they barking on cue for someone else, without realizing it?
#196
C*pt*i* Obvious
I don't worry much about backlash. By far the biggest trend in the Modern Era has been the movement of people from rural areas to cities. This trend is picking up pace even now that more than half of the people already live in cities. Cars led the way in this trend, but now they're holding it back. I think it's inevitable that by the end of this century, almost all people will live in large cities, and almost all of those city dwellers will be more or less carfree.
No backlash can stop this, although backlash will make the transition more painful than it needs to be in a few countries (notably the USA).
I don't see this as Armageddon. I see it as a marvelous opportunity for our species and our global habitat to thrive and prosper on a simpler and more spiritual scale.
If anybody knows of any way that the world can sustain ten billion folks who all own cars, please let us know. If not, get ready to tell your cars good-bye. And that will be a good thing!
No backlash can stop this, although backlash will make the transition more painful than it needs to be in a few countries (notably the USA).
I don't see this as Armageddon. I see it as a marvelous opportunity for our species and our global habitat to thrive and prosper on a simpler and more spiritual scale.
If anybody knows of any way that the world can sustain ten billion folks who all own cars, please let us know. If not, get ready to tell your cars good-bye. And that will be a good thing!
China is the test bed for this, as much as I like big cities, I strongly disagree with forcing people off the land and into crowded cities.
We have too much government intervention in our lives already.
That being said, I have been car-free for over 7 years, and quite happy being so.
#197
In the right lane
So how much of the backlash against car-free advocacy do you think is truly grass-roots reaction by the public and how much does it reflect public opinion being manipulated by advertisers, public relations people and so on, working in the interests of the real estate, oil, car and other industries?.
I gave up listening to CBS News because every second commercial was from Big Oil. (Viagra seemed to fill the other slots... but that's another issue.)
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Or disagree that proselytizing (advocating if you like that term better) for changing others' behavior to meet a strident poster's standard is a necessary component for properly living car free or living car light; or for riding a bicycle for transportation purposes.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 02-04-14 at 10:11 PM.
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So how much of the backlash against car-free advocacy do you think is truly grass-roots reaction by the public and how much does it reflect public opinion being manipulated by advertisers, public relations people and so on, working in the interests of the real estate, oil, car and other industries?. Are the people who think car-free or environmental advocates are preachy etc. actually thinking for themselves, or are they barking on cue for someone else, without realizing it?
Monday i rode 35 miles to meet some friends for lunch. As we sat at a patio table talking and planning our next outing two older men pulled up any got out of what looked to be a F series heavy duty truck. Much bigger than a 350. One walked up and asked how far we had come that day. When we told him he said, "don't you like cars?" We smiled and said, we like cars, we don't like paying for gas. With they finally smiled and went in to have lunch themselves. I don't believe we would have gotten a smile if we complained about their truck do you?
#200
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In most social gatherings I have been in car free and environmental advocates hardly are ever thought of let alone backlashed against. I don't believe cyclists even hit the Forbes 500 radar. But tree hugger was a term from the street and as grass roots as it gets. I first heard it from the working men of the lumber industry in Washington state. Well with some profanity before and after the name tree hugger. It doesn't get much more grass roots than when the attitude comes from the very people you are trying to influence. I personally know lumber jacks that would gladly drive a spike into a member of ELF like they did trees so chainsaws would hit them. Society itself came up with the DUI connotation for an adult on a bicycle corporate America didn't have to take out an add.
Monday i rode 35 miles to meet some friends for lunch. As we sat at a patio table talking and planning our next outing two older men pulled up any got out of what looked to be a F series heavy duty truck. Much bigger than a 350. One walked up and asked how far we had come that day. When we told him he said, "don't you like cars?" We smiled and said, we like cars, we don't like paying for gas. With they finally smiled and went in to have lunch themselves. I don't believe we would have gotten a smile if we complained about their truck do you?
Monday i rode 35 miles to meet some friends for lunch. As we sat at a patio table talking and planning our next outing two older men pulled up any got out of what looked to be a F series heavy duty truck. Much bigger than a 350. One walked up and asked how far we had come that day. When we told him he said, "don't you like cars?" We smiled and said, we like cars, we don't like paying for gas. With they finally smiled and went in to have lunch themselves. I don't believe we would have gotten a smile if we complained about their truck do you?