Originally Posted by sauerwald

With acknowledgement to Roody about staying on topic, I think that at least for me, going car free involved more of a lifestyle change than just changing my mode of transportation. When I decided to give up the car, I moved to a location where I was much closer to work, grocery store etc, decreasing my need for transportation. With the ease of driving, I would often drive 10-20 miles to go out to dinner or meet friends etc, now I consider those things more carefully. There are non-economic costs that I have incurred by not having a car. When a group of us go out for lunch, I end up bumming a ride rather than driving myself. When I went car free I did not just substitute a bike for a car and continue with everything else the same, car-free had a more broad reaching effect which resulted in my requiring less transportation.

The original question explicitly said 'cash expenses', but for me, many of the changes were big changes, with relatively small cash impacts.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike

Good point. How to quantify the "cost" of foregoing previously enjoyed activities such as weekend family outings, dining out or leisurely visiting friends, relatives and entertainment at more distant locations?

Originally Posted by wphamilton

Yep, aka "opportunity cost" which we tend to disregard in this kind of accounting bull-session. But these opportunities missed can have their own associated costs, depending on the activities you like, so it quickly becomes an individualized type of thing. That's why I'm inclined to dismiss it, and just estimate that we'll find "something else" enjoyable to do, net sum zero. What I've found, car-free or car-light, is that what I really lose is spontaneity. Having to rent a car, which means scheduling and planning ahead. It's not clear how to put a price on that.

Actual "car-light costs": tires, chains, lube, cassettes, and whatever extra I eat for the five or six hundred calories I burn daily commuting. It's pretty much trivial compared to what I spend on cycling, just because I want to but not strictly justifiable for transportation. If we need a number my costs come to about 4-8 cents per commuting mile.

Originally Posted by Roody

I agree that opportunity costs are highly subjective and varied. What I'm hoping for here is an informational thread about the actual costs of cycling and public transit. The purpose is to inform people who are thinking about using cars less. They can figure the opportunity costs for their own situation.

Originally Posted by Roody

What I'm hoping for here is an informational thread about the actual costs of cycling and public transit. The purpose is to inform people who are thinking about using cars less. They can figure the opportunity costs for their own situation.

Originally Posted by gerv

Unfortunately, I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I have no precise idea of what I spend on bicycles.

My problem is that I would rather be out riding than sitting at home reckoning costs!!

Originally Posted by bbeasley

Ok, let me take another swing at this. I'm now a 2 month genius on being car light I've kept an accurate record of how long components last for the last 4 years and 9,500 miles of riding my road bike and FG/SS. I've turned my Wabi FG/SS into my commuter so here goes:

Please forgive the formatting. Geez. There's 4 columns
Item
Life: expected life span
Cost: what I paid new
Cost per mile: This is based on 2200 miles of commuting per year

Miles per year 2200
Item Life Cost Cost per mile
Bike 10 525 0.024
Fenders 10 60 0.003
Saddle 6 45 0.003
Tires 1.5 124 0.038
Chain/Tubes 1.5 50 0.015
Jacket 4 90 0.010
Shorts/Pants 4 200 0.023
Pedals 6 60 0.005
Shoes 4 80 0.009
Wheels 5 225 0.020

Cost per mile 0.15

Cost per year $329.5

Initial investment $1459

I buy new and what I consider nice stuff when it comes to cycling. Obviously this could be done for much less.

As an example: I took the cost of my Wabi Classic and deducted the cost of a new set of wheels. I don't think I'll get 10 years out of the wheels so they needed to be a separate line item.

Tires are the most expensive item for me. I like Conti 4000 S IIs @ $124/set LBS prices. You could save quite a bit on cheaper tires and/or Internet shopping. I buy at my LBS so it is what it is. I also get more than 1.5 years @ 2200 miles per year out of a set. My history is more like 5K on a set. However I suspect I'll eventually cut one down early so there's money in the above for that.

Lights would have to be added. I've spent $130 on lights, I've no clue how long they will last so I've left that out.

Originally Posted by Roody

That's interesting. It surprised me that tires were the most expensive and that wheels were third most expensive--together more than twice as much as the bike itself.

It's definitely worthwhile shopping around for good deals on the round parts!

Originally Posted by Roody

You're overthinking this. It's a simple question: How much do you spend on transportation that doesn't involve a car? Not what effects did being carfree have on your quality of life. For me, the answer when I was carfree is:

$50 for bikes (a "new" used bike every three or four years)
$200 for bike parts and service
$2340 interurban bus (13 round trips of 400 miles to visit ailing parents)
$60 taxis
$300 bus

That's a total of $2,950 per year, for well over 10,000 miles of travel.

Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye

It's hard to beat cycling, but those bus trips are really, really expensive. I pay ~$1000+/year (ins+gas+maintenance) to drive ~7k miles, my car was $5500, which would be amortized over four years given how much you're paying for bus fare (and at that point the car should still be worth ~$3500).

Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye

If I drove my truck around everywhere, I'd probably get 25mpg, or less. Fortunately, I get ~65mpg in my 2000 Honda Insight (got it for $5000 plus tax with ~80k miles), which is ~$380/year at $3.50/gallon and 7000 miles. Insurance is ~$600/year, but I have a $0 comprehensive and $1000 collision deductible as well as the maximum for liability insurance (I think $500k/$500k). I imagine most people wouldn't pay as much (I live in southern California), of have as much liability insurance. Maintenance is ~$100/year. Not that there's anything wrong with public transit. In certain places (BART in the Bay Area), you can't beat it. But in other situations it can be kind of pricey compared to a fuel efficient/reliable car.

Originally Posted by Roody

What method did you use to calculate the mileage? 65 mpg sounds kinda high, especially for a 14 year old vehicle. Car & Driver said they only got 50 mpg when it was brand new.

And with $380 for gas and $600 for insurance, that leaves only $20 a year for all your other car expenses like repairs. oil and other fluids, registration fees, parking, inspections and so forth. I guess that's possible....

Anyway, my bus costs that I liste in an earlier post were pretty high because I was making monthly trips to another city 200 miles away. City bus passes here are $61/month for unlimited travel.

Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye

Age has no bearing on mileage unless the car falls into disrepair. I've calculated milage by miles on the odo divided by gallons pumped it. The onboard computer that shows mileage is pretty accurately too, within +/- 1-2mpg high/low, so I generally use that now.

I'm off by ~$100/year because I pay more for insurance than most (there are a lot of really expensive cars in Orange County ), but at the same time if I had the bare minimum for insurance, it would only cost ~$200/year. Car and Driver is notorious for driving the crap out of most cars, especially hybrids (I don't think they've gotten above 50mpg in any car). They still recorded ~70mpg@65mph when they got their foot out of it. More if you draft, but there's no need really.

How We Won the Insight Fuel-Economy Challenge. Without Cheating. Much - Road Test - Car Reviews - Car and Driver

Urban public transit is usually pretty good, but like you pointed out, extraurban travel can be very expensive. Even in southern California, operating my car for my ~30 mile round trip commute is only a few hundred dollars more per year than taking the bus, and a lot more flexible. I generally spend ~45min-1hr30min driving every day, but if I took the bus it would be closer to 5 hours/day.

In other cities with more tolls/parking costs and better developed and more efficient public transit systems, like BART in the Bay area, there would be no reason for me to drive, but public transit in socal, outside of maybe LA, sucks. What I really need to do is finally cobble together an EV bike and a trailer, since that would cover most of my needs and be far less expensive than even the bus.

Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye

Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye

Originally Posted by Ekdog

Doesn't being car-free almost always bring about a net savings?

Originally Posted by tandempower

Bicycle expenses shouldn't be compared with the savings of giving up owning and operating a car. Many bicycle suppliers would love to base their prices on the idea that the bicycle is a primary mode of transportation vs. being 'just a hobby device,' but really pricing should be based on costs.