RaleighSport

Quiet youngster, there are no vegan saddles here.


Anyhow on topic a bit, I fit into the outlier group or close in age to you dang millennials , cars are/were still huge in my age demographic to the point of quite a few people I know put off owning their own homes to insure they always had a brand new car despite the inability to maintain other aspects of their lifestyle by making that choice. Now if we look further through my circle of associates etc and take a closer look at those people who are a few years younger than myself, and I find very few of them care about cars at all, even the ones who live in the "country", with a few exceptions like the future college professor who needs to be able commute 40 miles each morning pre-dawn, who chose his car specifically because of gas mileage and cost rather than for the traditional reasons I think of when car shopping.. so just reviewing the people in my life of relative age, I'd be forced to agree that millennials just don't seem to care about cars in general.

I-Like-To-Bike

Sounds to me that your associates care more about different aspects of car ownership than the "traditional reasons" that you think of when shopping for a motor vehicle. Doesn't mean they don't care about owning or using a car when it is useful to them. Or that many people of any age voluntarily choose to eliminate automobile ownership by replacing convenient/necessary transportation with a smartphone or Facebook.

RaleighSport

That's overlooking how very few of them ever have gone car shopping, and I actually like the method the ones that do use as we need to keep this world going. I myself have never been given either to the traditional reasons I think of when going car shopping either. Then again if you'll recall this is all anecdotal and I have no idea about you youngins at large.

So give me the inside scoop, how do you view your generations views on vehicle ownership? And perhaps your own personal ones as well since you are the demographic.

I-Like-To-Bike

I (age 67YO) don't even dream of speaking for any demographic about this topic. I leave that for those on LCF who extrapolate from their own circumstances and/or have zero understanding or empathy for those living in different circumstances than their own; or get the inside scoop on the subject from cherry picked Internet blogs on the topic based on cherry picked factoid snippets.

RaleighSport

And there's the ILTB I know and love.

jon c. 

Meanwhile, the university keeps building more parking garages but can't keep pace with demand for student parking spaces.

ro-monster

I lust after a Cintiq Companion! That would be just awesome for freelance design work.

I do have a tablet, though. And two Nooks, and a smartphone, and two desktop computers. I love and use them all. Each one has different strengths and quirks.

I-Like-To-Bike

Do you find any of them practical/useful as a substitute for transportation purposes when you need to be somewhere else?

Roody

There have been a number of social research studies of the Millennial Generation. One of the best I found is from the Pew Research Center, a reputable and widely cited social research organization.

Full report (pdf): https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files...-to-change.pdf
Short summary from the Pew organization: Millennials in Adulthood | Pew Research Center?s Social & Demographic Trends Project

[HR][/HR]
One set of statistics has to do with whether millennials are moving into cities in greater numbers than other generations. (This bears on the topic of this forum because urban dwellers are presumably more likely to become carfree.):[HR][/HR]

FYI, the Pew Research Center defines the Millennial Generation as people born after 1980. The adults in this generation are now 18-34 years old.

ro-monster

It's not changing the culture of young people. It's changing the culture of all people. I turn 60 next summer, and I would never want to go back to the tech I had growing up. A phone (mini-computer, really) in my pocket is a wonderful luxury. I'd much rather do my banking while riding the bus than have to go to the bank, instantly look up information on something I'm curious about, or text a friend instead of calling and probably getting an answering machine. And I have access to different cultures and friends all over the world instead of being limited to one area near my home.

Roody

I totally agree, but actually we didn't even have an answering machine until I was a young adult! (I was also born in '55.)

ro-monster

Sure, they really reduce the need to actually go somewhere else. Instead of going to a store, I go online and have stuff delivered. Instead of going to the bank to make a deposit, I photograph a check with my phone. Instead of going to the library to learn about something, I use the internet from wherever I happen to be. If I want to see a movie I don't have to go to a theater.

ro-monster

Neither did we, actually. I wrote a lot of little notes to my parents telling them who called. I don't miss that!

Machka 

Come again? You do what?

Sorry ... I've never heard of this. But then, I stopped using cheques years ago. Over here, everything is automatic ... pay is deposited automatically, bills are paid automatically ...

ro-monster

Well, I have direct deposit for some things too. But with a paper check, which I sometimes get from freelance work and such, an application on my phone can take a photo of the front and back, and then upload the pictures to be deposited either into a charge card or a bank account. This has only been available for a year or two. As far as writing checks goes, I do that only to pay rent, because my landlady insists on it.

Machka 

Interesting.

All rent and everything is automatic here. Or at least, online. I think you can choose to let it all happen automatically or opt to do the transfer yourself (from the comfort of your own computer).

I'm not sure what freelance people do here ... perhaps either cash or those little handheld devices that let you deposit an amount directly into someone's account.

Roody

I have DIL-o-matic bill payment. I give all my money to my daughter-in-law and she pays all the household bills, including food. Pretty easy!

wahoonc

7" tablet, and no it isn't bendable like the iPhone 6. I do remove it prior to sitting. Just for the record it usually goes in my jacket pocket, if I wear a field coat it does happen to have back pockets. My Kindle will fit in my back jeans pocket too.

Aaron

Pukeskywalker

Ages 24-34.
Correct
1,000%
-2,000,000%

I-Like-To-Bike

I figured as much about the value of your "people our age demographic" observations.

wahoonc

My parents, who are in their 80's don't have an answering machine. They have a cellphone but seldom use it. Mom has a laptop, dad still uses a desktop and a PDA.

My in-laws did away with the house phone completely an only use cellphones, to the best of my knowledge neither one has their voice mail set up. My MIL does do some texting and emailing from her phone. We are getting her an iPad for Christmas

Aaron

Pukeskywalker

To be "real with you"

I think Millennial is too young of an age range. A lot of what I've seen applies to the late-'70s born Generation X-ers I know.

My friends are all white people with college degrees, which is only about 20% of my generation. Poor white people seem to still value a monster pickup truck, and black people in this age range still seem to still value nice cars.

What's going on (the anti-car thing) is great, but a lot of it is just a status game. Who is green-er, who is more DIY, who is more "simple living" -- meanwhile everyone is going out to $50 plate dinners and wearing $50 vintage t-shirts -- quitting their jobs to travel for a year. All of which I can get behind and think are much more enjoyable luxuries than buying an expensive car - but there is some hypocrisy to the anti-car thing there. It's not really about being green, it's about looking green

The next mini-trend is frugal living / early retirement. It blew up online with Early Retirement Extreme and now Mr. Money Mustache, who has been getting some mainstream press and is strongly anti-big car, pro-bike. So I think we'll keep moving in this direction

Anyways, I know people ages 24-35 in the city, the burbs, and the country that have low interest in automobiles as status symbols. An old beater volvo or other vintage car has some appeal for weekend or minimal driving, and a small hatchback is seen as the practical choice. As long as the car isn't particularly out of fashion or low-status (PT Cruiser, Scion) people are indifferent

I-Like-To-Bike

No doubt about it, electronics are useful accessories, good tools for on line shopping/bill paying, can provide lots of entertainment, and can even be essential for someone who is a shut-in (by necessity or voluntarily). As a substitute for transporting Millennials or anyone else to someplace they would like to be, not so much. Works though if they have no interest in leaving the warmth of the electronic fireplace at home.

I-Like-To-Bike

To be "real with you":
The anti-car chest pumping smugness which you discuss sounds quite a bit like the anti-TV hypocrisy sometimes seen on this list.

The idea that people buy and own motor vehicles only/principally for the purpose of status rather than for any practical, convenience or utilitarian purpose is a silly-willy construct often found posted on this list. Some people may like more luxury and extra features with their ride and some may even believe that by buying certain marques they will get more of it. But no one should fool themselves into seriously believing that many people buy/own/use a motor vehicle only to show off their ability to spend money.

It should also be noted that practical, convenience and utilitarian purposes is defined by the people buying and using their motor vehicles, not as defined by smug ideologues who share few if any cultural similarities, and also show no capacity for empathy for those who don't share their own profile.

Buying/owning/driving a beater Volvo, or a small hatchback and/or being indifferent to brand of car owned is no more "anti-car" than buying/owning/driving a monster pickup, nice car or a Scion. It only represents a preference for a different version of personally owned motorized transportation.

Pukeskywalker

I think I'm not responding clearly to what you're getting at, I can agree with all of what you've said.

The world I live in has a lot of status-game nonsense going on. I know a 28 year old who just bought a brand-new BMW and some of us snickered about it. We have disposable income.

Some of us are using that money wisely (my opinion), moving closer to work, spending time on bikes instead of a car, and opting for a tiny asian hatchback instead of a BMW.

While based in cold financial logic, that sort of simple-lifestyle designing is becoming a status game on its own. You live in the city, you bike or walk to work, you fly to the 3rd world on a jet-plane once a year.

That flight burns more carbon than a year of commuting by car, but people ignore that. In my opinion, going car-free, plastic-bag free, etc for environmental reasons is a waste of time. Jevons paradox -- any decrease in consumption of gasoline simply lowers price, wherein people more freely burn it, and carbon emissions are back to the same levels as before.

Car-free won't save the earth.

Car-free to save money = great idea that is becoming a status game and getting convoluted with green-living