LOOK!! This is why Basso,Ulrich Out Of Tour:Drugs!!
07-06-06, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by reef58
I did some number crunching. This is a crude calculation, but it demonstrates how close all of the contenders are.
1) Using the power calculator, and assuming 500 miles are really fought out between the GC's in the TDF the difference is very small. I plugged in an average slope of 2%, cadence of 90rpm's, and used the same height & weight measurements for all 3 wattages.
300 watts time 25 hours, 22 minutes and 50 seconds.
297 watts time 25 hours, 30 minutes and 36 seconds
295 watts time 25 hours, 38 minutes and 27 seconds
3 measley watts gives identical riders almost and 8 minute differece in time.
That is a 1% difference. I think it is certainly possible for someone to be gifted enough to maintain a 1% difference without PED's. I am not saying it was done, but possible.
Has anyone found a study on PED's and the elite riders? I wonder how much difference they make? I suspect it would be less than someone who is untrained.
Richard
1) Using the power calculator, and assuming 500 miles are really fought out between the GC's in the TDF the difference is very small. I plugged in an average slope of 2%, cadence of 90rpm's, and used the same height & weight measurements for all 3 wattages.
300 watts time 25 hours, 22 minutes and 50 seconds.
297 watts time 25 hours, 30 minutes and 36 seconds
295 watts time 25 hours, 38 minutes and 27 seconds
3 measley watts gives identical riders almost and 8 minute differece in time.
That is a 1% difference. I think it is certainly possible for someone to be gifted enough to maintain a 1% difference without PED's. I am not saying it was done, but possible.
Has anyone found a study on PED's and the elite riders? I wonder how much difference they make? I suspect it would be less than someone who is untrained.
Richard
Just compare the l'Alpe d'Huez times of 2005 and 2001... huge difference simply because the top riders were all shadowing (followed by Armstrong) in 2005 while he blew the race apart in 2001.
07-06-06, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by allez
im gonna miss the Team TT though.....
07-06-06, 09:07 PM
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Yea, the team time trial is so cool, they just have to figure out a way to reward a team adequately without penalizing a GC contender too much for having a poor team ride, I know, tough to do.
07-07-06, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by robow
Yea, the team time trial is so cool, they just have to figure out a way to reward a team adequately without penalizing a GC contender too much for having a poor team ride, I know, tough to do.
If AG2R loses by 5:23 like they did last year they are given a 3:42 deficit - the first 2 minutes at full rate then half of the next 3:23.
07-07-06, 02:00 PM
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... Originally Posted by va_cyclist "I think I'm done paying attention to pro cycling"
I agree - this is one of the best times to watch Pro cycling and the Tour. Assume the ones like George, Levi, Landis, Rasmussen, Salvodelli, Hushovd, Boonen, McEwen, etc are clean and enjoy the fight everywhere, especially in the mountains.
If you can't make that assumption, then you really can't ever enjoy competitive sports. Starting with everyone above cat3 is on 'something', hey, maybe even that guy who dropped you for dead on that last climb must be on 'something'
Originally Posted by khuon
One might argue that on the contrary, this might be the best time to start paying attention to pro cycling.
If you can't make that assumption, then you really can't ever enjoy competitive sports. Starting with everyone above cat3 is on 'something', hey, maybe even that guy who dropped you for dead on that last climb must be on 'something'
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07-07-06, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by gpelpel
With some teams missing 2 or more guys it's probably better they don't have a Team TT.
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07-07-06, 10:35 PM
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Speaking of "El Diablo Rojo"..I haven't seen him this year. Is he still around, or does he only do the mountains? And most important, does he use PED's to run alongside and wave his pitchfork?
07-08-06, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Sporkinum
Speaking of "El Diablo Rojo"..I haven't seen him this year. Is he still around, or does he only do the mountains? And most important, does he use PED's to run alongside and wave his pitchfork?
07-09-06, 05:11 PM
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Front page of LA Times today...
I wonder if this doping scandal stuff will make into the mainstream media similar to the was the Balco story blew up. Most people don't realize that the Balco investigation started from track and field. Not from baseball.
This was on the front page of the L.A. Times today...
https://www.latimes.com/sports/cyclin...home-headlines
This was on the front page of the L.A. Times today...
https://www.latimes.com/sports/cyclin...home-headlines
07-09-06, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rufvelo
... Originally Posted by va_cyclist "I think I'm done paying attention to pro cycling"
I agree - this is one of the best times to watch Pro cycling and the Tour. Assume the ones like George, Levi, Landis, Rasmussen, Salvodelli, Hushovd, Boonen, McEwen, etc are clean and enjoy the fight everywhere, especially in the mountains.
If you can't make that assumption, then you really can't ever enjoy competitive sports. Starting with everyone above cat3 is on 'something', hey, maybe even that guy who dropped you for dead on that last climb must be on 'something'
I agree - this is one of the best times to watch Pro cycling and the Tour. Assume the ones like George, Levi, Landis, Rasmussen, Salvodelli, Hushovd, Boonen, McEwen, etc are clean and enjoy the fight everywhere, especially in the mountains.
If you can't make that assumption, then you really can't ever enjoy competitive sports. Starting with everyone above cat3 is on 'something', hey, maybe even that guy who dropped you for dead on that last climb must be on 'something'
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07-11-06, 12:56 AM
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Being Danish myself, I know a few funny things about Rasmussen. His nickname is "Kylling" - chicken for those who do not speak the language. He suffers from a form of manic compulsive disorder - he weighs everything, his bike, his food (in and out). He is apparently a team mechanics worst nightmare when it comes to the setting up of his bike because of this. For such a thin guy, both his parents are overweight...
Last edited by poululla; 07-11-06 at 04:09 AM.
07-11-06, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by poululla
...Rasmussen. ...he weighs everything, his bike, his food (in and out). ...
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07-12-06, 04:24 PM
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Some different facts to consider about Lance Armstrong
I have read the LATimes story that talks about the $5 mill payment dispute affecting Lance Armstrong, seems like quite a few publications it wants to keep the facts as vague as possible.
I dont know how many people are aware that Lance Armstrong was involved in a case study describing the physiological chacteristics and development of a cyclist over a 7-year period from the age of 21 to 28.
The person was specifically Lance Armstrong and it covers before and during TDF champion, and obviously while recovering from cancer.
It makes interesting reading and raises the question would he actually dope when you consider the testing was at the Human Performance Laboratory, University of Texas.
(Each person will have their own views on this). My own personal view is that he has pushed the legal bounds at the time as far as possible regarding performance enhancement, meaning that some practices he did in the past were legal then but had to be changed when laws were tightened.
Link to journal mentioned above: https://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten.../98/6/2191#top
I am not going into that much detail of the trial to claim the $5 mill, but this should open some eyes a bit more I hope:
Brief comment before the below testimony.
Betsy Andreu’s testimony in the context of the case: she conferred with and assisted the insurance company, she voluntarily traveled to Dallas on her own to testify against Armstrong at trial (the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong. Armstrong’s lawyers recovered a note she brought to Dallas which read “why do I hate Lance Armstrong?” She was so obsessive that even the insurance company employee responsible for attempting to gather evidence of drug use by Lance (the employee had gone so far as to steal a piece of used chewing gum Armstrong had placed in a trash can in a Dallas Courtroom and sent it for DNA testing at a Dallas laboratory, the results of which were of course negative) complained of her constant phone calls and suggestions. She placed over 15 calls to the investigator during a one-month period prior to the trial. All this evidence was introduced at trial before the Panel signed its award for 7.5 Million dollars to Armstrong.
Partial testimony of Mrs Andreus (who attended in support of the insurance company but was questioned by LA lawyers pertaining to the Lemond deposition) and also Julian DeVriese.
With all the accusations going round I am not sure we will get to the bottom of it but this sure highlights a lot of confusion about those accusations printed by the press.
One thing we know for sure... Lance really did p&ss some people off and thats giving him headaches.
Also it seems the insurance company recovered a piece of chewing gum to do DNA tests (not sure what they could find from that though) and it came back negative..... 10/10 for effort by them though
I dont know how many people are aware that Lance Armstrong was involved in a case study describing the physiological chacteristics and development of a cyclist over a 7-year period from the age of 21 to 28.
The person was specifically Lance Armstrong and it covers before and during TDF champion, and obviously while recovering from cancer.
It makes interesting reading and raises the question would he actually dope when you consider the testing was at the Human Performance Laboratory, University of Texas.
(Each person will have their own views on this). My own personal view is that he has pushed the legal bounds at the time as far as possible regarding performance enhancement, meaning that some practices he did in the past were legal then but had to be changed when laws were tightened.
Link to journal mentioned above: https://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten.../98/6/2191#top
I am not going into that much detail of the trial to claim the $5 mill, but this should open some eyes a bit more I hope:
Brief comment before the below testimony.
Betsy Andreu’s testimony in the context of the case: she conferred with and assisted the insurance company, she voluntarily traveled to Dallas on her own to testify against Armstrong at trial (the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong. Armstrong’s lawyers recovered a note she brought to Dallas which read “why do I hate Lance Armstrong?” She was so obsessive that even the insurance company employee responsible for attempting to gather evidence of drug use by Lance (the employee had gone so far as to steal a piece of used chewing gum Armstrong had placed in a trash can in a Dallas Courtroom and sent it for DNA testing at a Dallas laboratory, the results of which were of course negative) complained of her constant phone calls and suggestions. She placed over 15 calls to the investigator during a one-month period prior to the trial. All this evidence was introduced at trial before the Panel signed its award for 7.5 Million dollars to Armstrong.
Partial testimony of Mrs Andreus (who attended in support of the insurance company but was questioned by LA lawyers pertaining to the Lemond deposition) and also Julian DeVriese.
Andreu’s trial testimony on the Lemonds’ depositions is as follows:
Q. Now, you're aware that both Greg and Kathy LeMond testified that you told them that Mr. Armstrong had called your house in a panic because he was out of EPO, and he wanted some from Frank?
A. No, that's not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.
Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don't know - how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No. That Lance told Frankie that.
Q. Well, are you aware that both of the LeMonds testified that you told them that?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn't it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. So it's your testimony that you never told either the -- either of the LeMonds the two stories that I just mentioned; right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Other alleged Lemond conversations were likewise disproved. The Lemonds claimed, under oath, that Julian DeVriese, a Belgian mechanic who worked for Lemond and later for the Postal Service team, had made statements linking Armstrong to illegal conduct. The French papers recently published those claims but neglected to disclose that DeVriese was asked in the trial process to address specifically the accusations the Lemonds attributed to him. In his answers, set out below, DeVriese repudiated entirely the Lemond allegations:
Q. In your service as a mechanic for the USPS, did you ever observe Lance Armstrong engage in any prohibited conduct including, but not limited to, the use of any performance enhancing substance (“PES”)?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever observe any member of the USPS team use PES?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever assist in the procurement, transportation or disposal of any PES for the USPS or any member of the team?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever told by any member, coach, trainer or director of the USPS that any PES had been used by any USPS team member?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond that you had attended a training camp in the Pyrenees with Kevin Livingston, Tyler Hamilton, Lance Armstrong and Dr. Ferrari where they were using large amounts of drugs which were new, out of the system in 48 hours and could never be detected?
A. No, I did not. While I attended some training camps, I have never met a Dr. Ferrari. In fact, if you put 100 people in front of me I could not recognize him.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that Lance Armstrong had a positive drug test in 1999 for cortisone?
A. I may have mentioned that, I do not recall. However, that was reported in the newspapers, so it was no secret. I was told that it resulted from a cortisone cream used to treat saddle-sores, which are common among professional cyclists.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that the team security back-dated prescription for the cortisone?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that the UCI and/or the President of the UCI was paid $500,000 to keep quiet about the 1999 positive?
A. No. I am a bicycle mechanic and I would have no knowledge or information regarding such things, anyway.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond in April, 2001 that a French investigation dealing with the 2000 Tour de France was dismissed because you signed a false or fraudulent affidavit?
A. No.
Q. Did Lance Armstrong or Bill Stapleton request you to sign a false affidavit in connection with that investigation?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond or Kathy LeMond that the USPS team had refrigerators (“frigos”) on the bus for the purpose of keeping prohibited performance enhancing drugs refrigerated?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Emma O’Reilly that you transported drugs to members of the USPS team via a hollowed-out heel on your clogs?
A. No. Furthermore, I do not wear or own a pair of clogs.
Q. Did you, at a dinner in Perne la Fontaine, in July 2000, with Vera, Stephan, Dean Brewer, Jorge Jasson and the LeMond’s and their children present, tell those at dinner about a three-week training camp where the riders, including Lance, were on IVs doing drugs and experimenting with a drug that’s undetectable and out of the system in 48 hours?
A. No. I recall going to dinner the night after the reunion and that my wife and son were there. However, there was no conversation about PES by USPS or anyone else. I would never discuss any such topic at a dinner with my family or children.
Q. Did you, at the 10-year reunion in July, 2000 tell Greg or Kathy Lemond about any PES use by the USPS team or its members?
A. No.
Q. Now, you're aware that both Greg and Kathy LeMond testified that you told them that Mr. Armstrong had called your house in a panic because he was out of EPO, and he wanted some from Frank?
A. No, that's not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.
Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don't know - how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No. That Lance told Frankie that.
Q. Well, are you aware that both of the LeMonds testified that you told them that?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn't it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. So it's your testimony that you never told either the -- either of the LeMonds the two stories that I just mentioned; right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Other alleged Lemond conversations were likewise disproved. The Lemonds claimed, under oath, that Julian DeVriese, a Belgian mechanic who worked for Lemond and later for the Postal Service team, had made statements linking Armstrong to illegal conduct. The French papers recently published those claims but neglected to disclose that DeVriese was asked in the trial process to address specifically the accusations the Lemonds attributed to him. In his answers, set out below, DeVriese repudiated entirely the Lemond allegations:
Q. In your service as a mechanic for the USPS, did you ever observe Lance Armstrong engage in any prohibited conduct including, but not limited to, the use of any performance enhancing substance (“PES”)?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever observe any member of the USPS team use PES?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever assist in the procurement, transportation or disposal of any PES for the USPS or any member of the team?
A. No.
Q. Were you ever told by any member, coach, trainer or director of the USPS that any PES had been used by any USPS team member?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond that you had attended a training camp in the Pyrenees with Kevin Livingston, Tyler Hamilton, Lance Armstrong and Dr. Ferrari where they were using large amounts of drugs which were new, out of the system in 48 hours and could never be detected?
A. No, I did not. While I attended some training camps, I have never met a Dr. Ferrari. In fact, if you put 100 people in front of me I could not recognize him.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that Lance Armstrong had a positive drug test in 1999 for cortisone?
A. I may have mentioned that, I do not recall. However, that was reported in the newspapers, so it was no secret. I was told that it resulted from a cortisone cream used to treat saddle-sores, which are common among professional cyclists.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that the team security back-dated prescription for the cortisone?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that the UCI and/or the President of the UCI was paid $500,000 to keep quiet about the 1999 positive?
A. No. I am a bicycle mechanic and I would have no knowledge or information regarding such things, anyway.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond in April, 2001 that a French investigation dealing with the 2000 Tour de France was dismissed because you signed a false or fraudulent affidavit?
A. No.
Q. Did Lance Armstrong or Bill Stapleton request you to sign a false affidavit in connection with that investigation?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond or Kathy LeMond that the USPS team had refrigerators (“frigos”) on the bus for the purpose of keeping prohibited performance enhancing drugs refrigerated?
A. No.
Q. Did you tell Emma O’Reilly that you transported drugs to members of the USPS team via a hollowed-out heel on your clogs?
A. No. Furthermore, I do not wear or own a pair of clogs.
Q. Did you, at a dinner in Perne la Fontaine, in July 2000, with Vera, Stephan, Dean Brewer, Jorge Jasson and the LeMond’s and their children present, tell those at dinner about a three-week training camp where the riders, including Lance, were on IVs doing drugs and experimenting with a drug that’s undetectable and out of the system in 48 hours?
A. No. I recall going to dinner the night after the reunion and that my wife and son were there. However, there was no conversation about PES by USPS or anyone else. I would never discuss any such topic at a dinner with my family or children.
Q. Did you, at the 10-year reunion in July, 2000 tell Greg or Kathy Lemond about any PES use by the USPS team or its members?
A. No.
One thing we know for sure... Lance really did p&ss some people off and thats giving him headaches.
Also it seems the insurance company recovered a piece of chewing gum to do DNA tests (not sure what they could find from that though) and it came back negative..... 10/10 for effort by them though
07-13-06, 01:56 AM
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UNI,
I posted your reply on another thread delaing with the LA Times investigation.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...51#post2765051
I hope you don't mind. You'll find out from my posts that I am convinced Lance was not clean, but I am trying to gather as much info as possible, wherever it can come from, if the source is minimally reliable.
Where did you get your information from?
Adamastor
I posted your reply on another thread delaing with the LA Times investigation.
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...51#post2765051
I hope you don't mind. You'll find out from my posts that I am convinced Lance was not clean, but I am trying to gather as much info as possible, wherever it can come from, if the source is minimally reliable.
Where did you get your information from?
Adamastor
07-13-06, 09:17 AM
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Something I've been wondering about... It was the Spanish police that ran Operation Porta, right? What law were they enforcing? Who will be arrested? What will be the charges?
Not trolling here. Actually, I'm glad to see some action against doping. I just think it's kind of weird that the Spanish police reported their results to the cycling world and team managers instead of just issuing warrants for arrest as would usually be done at the end of a sting or undercover police operation.
Somebody please set me straight if I got some fact wrong here. As I see the facts now, it just doesn't make sense.
Not trolling here. Actually, I'm glad to see some action against doping. I just think it's kind of weird that the Spanish police reported their results to the cycling world and team managers instead of just issuing warrants for arrest as would usually be done at the end of a sting or undercover police operation.
Somebody please set me straight if I got some fact wrong here. As I see the facts now, it just doesn't make sense.
07-13-06, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by squeakywheel
Something I've been wondering about... It was the Spanish police that ran Operation Porta, right? What law were they enforcing? Who will be arrested? What will be the charges?
Not trolling here. Actually, I'm glad to see some action against doping. I just think it's kind of weird that the Spanish police reported their results to the cycling world and team managers instead of just issuing warrants for arrest as would usually be done at the end of a sting or undercover police operation.
Somebody please set me straight if I got some fact wrong here. As I see the facts now, it just doesn't make sense.
Not trolling here. Actually, I'm glad to see some action against doping. I just think it's kind of weird that the Spanish police reported their results to the cycling world and team managers instead of just issuing warrants for arrest as would usually be done at the end of a sting or undercover police operation.
Somebody please set me straight if I got some fact wrong here. As I see the facts now, it just doesn't make sense.
May: leaks by the press about the running investigation - possible names of riders published
July: just before Tour, because of chaos created by the press, Guardia Civil decides to "exceptionnally" deliver a summary odf the investigation to Tour organisers and cycling teams
July: teams unanimously decide to ban riders "involved" (not necessarily guilty !) from Tour de France, hence byebye Ullrich, byebye Basso, etc
This short summary. Do a search on "operation puerto" on BF, you'll find plenty of threads, or on
"Google" same.
07-13-06, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by adamastor
May: Dr Fuentes arrested, Manolo Saiz caught as well, plenty of paperwork and bags with blood discovered - investigation starts by Guardia Civil
May: leaks by the press about the running investigation - possible names of riders published
July: just before Tour, because of chaos created by the press, Guardia Civil decides to "exceptionnally" deliver a summary odf the investigation to Tour organisers and cycling teams
July: teams unanimously decide to ban riders "involved" (not necessarily guilty !) from Tour de France, hence byebye Ullrich, byebye Basso, etc
This short summary. Do a search on "operation puerto" on BF, you'll find plenty of threads, or on
"Google" same.
May: leaks by the press about the running investigation - possible names of riders published
July: just before Tour, because of chaos created by the press, Guardia Civil decides to "exceptionnally" deliver a summary odf the investigation to Tour organisers and cycling teams
July: teams unanimously decide to ban riders "involved" (not necessarily guilty !) from Tour de France, hence byebye Ullrich, byebye Basso, etc
This short summary. Do a search on "operation puerto" on BF, you'll find plenty of threads, or on
"Google" same.
Edit: He's a doctor, right? He should be able to prescribe drugs to his patients. The most I can see is maybe losing his license to practice medicine if the governing medical body in Spain decided he wasn't following their code of ethics.
07-13-06, 10:17 AM
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Spain has passed laws (March 06 by google search) against sports doping. Apparently, the Spanish government has decided to go after sports cheating. This investigation started in May hence the law was in force.
07-13-06, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevor98
Spain has passed laws (March 06 by google search) against sports doping. Apparently, the Spanish government has decided to go after sports cheating. This investigation started in May hence the law was in force.
07-13-06, 11:12 AM
#521
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Originally Posted by squeakywheel
OK, but I guess they'll have to throw out all the evidence that's more than a few months old since the law wasn't in effect before then.
This is European law, not U.S. law so evidence from prior to the law
being enacted may hold ( not sure about that).
got to think globally here, not UScentric.
marty
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07-13-06, 11:12 AM
#522
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by adamastor
UNI,
I posted your reply on another thread delaing with the LA Times investigation.
I posted your reply on another thread delaing with the LA Times investigation.
Originally Posted by UNI
Betsy Andreu’s testimony in the context of the case: she conferred with and assisted the insurance company, she voluntarily traveled to Dallas on her own to testify against Armstrong at trial (the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong. Armstrong’s lawyers recovered a note she brought to Dallas which read “why do I hate Lance Armstrong?” She was so obsessive that even the insurance company employee responsible for attempting to gather evidence of drug use by Lance (the employee had gone so far as to steal a piece of used chewing gum Armstrong had placed in a trash can in a Dallas Courtroom and sent it for DNA testing at a Dallas laboratory, the results of which were of course negative) complained of her constant phone calls and suggestions. She placed over 15 calls to the investigator during a one-month period prior to the trial. All this evidence was introduced at trial before the Panel signed its award for 7.5 Million dollars to Armstrong.
As for why she had that “Why do I hate Lance” scrap of paper, she probably gets asked that particular question a lot, and wrote it down with the intention of drafting a response clarifying that she doesn’t hate him, she just wants to tell the truth.
Regarding the chewing gum, is it possible the insurer obtained a sample of EPO tainted blood or urine from a source who claimed it was Armstrong's and needed a proven sample of his DNA to check it against?
Originally Posted by UNI
Q. Now, you're aware that both Greg and Kathy LeMond testified that you told them that Mr. Armstrong had called your house in a panic because he was out of EPO, and he wanted some from Frank?
A. No, that's not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.
Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don't know - how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No. That Lance told Frankie that.
Q. Well, are you aware that both of the LeMonds testified that you told them that?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn't it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. So it's your testimony that you never told either the -- either of the LeMonds the two stories that I just mentioned; right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
A. No, that's not right.
Q. It was a lie by both LeMonds?
A. That was incorrect.
Q. Well, it was a lie?
A. That was incorrect by the LeMonds. I don't know - how they got that.
Q. Are you aware that both LeMonds testified that you told them that you had witnessed Mr. Armstrong inject himself with performance-enhancing drugs?
A. No. That Lance told Frankie that.
Q. Well, are you aware that both of the LeMonds testified that you told them that?
A. No.
Q. If they did so testify, that would be a lie, wouldn't it?
A. That would be incorrect, yes.
Q. So it's your testimony that you never told either the -- either of the LeMonds the two stories that I just mentioned; right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Originally Posted by UNI
In his answers, set out below, DeVriese repudiated entirely the Lemond allegations:
….
Q. Did you tell Emma O’Reilly that you transported drugs to members of the USPS team via a hollowed-out heel on your clogs?
A. No. Furthermore, I do not wear or own a pair of clogs.
…
Q. Did you ever assist in the procurement, transportation or disposal of any PES for the USPS or any member of the team?
A. No.
…
Q. Did you tell Kathy LeMond that the UCI and/or the President of the UCI was paid $500,000 to keep quiet about the 1999 positive?
A. No. I am a bicycle mechanic and I would have no knowledge or information regarding such things, anyway.
....
Q. Did you tell Greg LeMond in April, 2001 that a French investigation dealing with the 2000 Tour de France was dismissed because you signed a false or fraudulent affidavit?
A. No.
Q. Did Lance Armstrong or Bill Stapleton request you to sign a false affidavit in connection with that investigation?
A. No.
(That's just part of his testimony). I know nothing of Mr. DeVriese, but those questions clearly would have incriminated him had he answered 'yes', perhaps opened him to criminal investigation, so he certainly was not a neutral observer in this case.
I actually am not taking sides, just pointing out that UNI's post is hardly damning of Lemond or Andreu.
07-13-06, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by uni
Q. So it's your testimony that you never told either the -- either of the LeMonds the two stories that I just mentioned; right?
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
A. Correct.
Q. And you didn't tell them that because that never happened?
A. Correct.
Originally Posted by cooker
just pointing out that UNI's post is hardly damning of Lemond or Andreu.
them, or Ms. Andreu is lying about the Lemond's testimony.
Somehow 1+1 is not adding up to 2.
Marty
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07-13-06, 03:33 PM
#524
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by lotek
Sure looks like either the Lemonds are lying about the story that Ms. Andreu allegedly told
them, or Ms. Andreu is lying about the Lemond's testimony.
Somehow 1+1 is not adding up to 2.
Marty
them, or Ms. Andreu is lying about the Lemond's testimony.
Somehow 1+1 is not adding up to 2.
Marty
Also, you haven't considered that Armstrong's lawyer may simply have twisted the facts around in his line of questioning to try to trap Ms. Andreu in a lie.
Also, witnesses on the stand are under tremendous pressure and can make mistakes in their testimony.
07-13-06, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by cooker
If they were conspiring against Lance and met a hundred times to plan it, they would have got their story straight. The fact that they differed on a few details, years or decades after the incidents in question, might mean their story wasn't rock solid enough to deny Lance his $5 million (fair enough), but it doesn't point to deliberate lying.
Also, you haven't considered that Armstrong's lawyer may simply have twisted the facts around in his line of questioning to try to trap Ms. Andreu in a lie.
Also, witnesses on the stand are under tremendous pressure and can make mistakes in their testimony.
Also, you haven't considered that Armstrong's lawyer may simply have twisted the facts around in his line of questioning to try to trap Ms. Andreu in a lie.
Also, witnesses on the stand are under tremendous pressure and can make mistakes in their testimony.
Didnt now which doctor, what they were wearing, or even if they were male or female.
May sound strange but the lead doctor/s dispute that they ever asked these types of questions.
BTW Mr. DeVriese was Discovery cycling mechanic who Greg Lemond mentions as saying EPO was couriered to Lance, etc.
Mr. DeVriese denies all this.