Howzit

Ok, so i know LeMond has become controversial and all of that, but there is no denying his records, or his achievments.

An interesting fact, Greg's 89 Time Trial stage win with Avg speed of 54.545 kph, stood for almost 20 years, only being cracked by David Zabriskie, and not by much, at 54.676 km/h, a trivial beating really, in 2005.

If you read this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ses_in_cycling

Do you guys have any thoughts or feelings on this record?
Have you guys seen the bike he rode, and the training plans and programs they had back then?

Im just wondering, if a man was this good, how could he have not won 10 Tours?

chipcom 

Getting shot in the off season tends to ruin a streak.

bigfred 

O.K. posting the wiki link in every thread is getting a little old already.

He could not win 10 tours because the tour is about a lot more than individual time trialing. Given your resonses in other threads, I know that I don't need to educate on this. So why start a thread and ask a question you already know the answer to, other than to give yourself another place to post that link?

:edit: And yes, not getting shot seems to help. I really wonder why Greg has chosen to support Tour de Cure instead of starting an initiative to support Gun Safety and Hunter Education? Now that would make all the sense in the world.

Howzit

Thats kinda funny.

Any-whoo, 'bout the fancy gunshot remark from both of you, Lance got cancer and won 7.
Why dont you focus on the question instead of trying to attack me? I was hoping you both knew your cycling history better, tsk, tsk, tsk.
Guess what, he set that record AFTER he got shot

bigfred 

Hey mate, Greg is the one who has repeatedly credited the gun shot as one of the issues that shortened his competitive career. Now this Armstrong character comes along and has the audacity to not only eclipse Greg's Tour total but does so after cancer. What a ***** slap!

Oh, and I've already answered your question. How about answering the one I posed in kind?

chipcom 

You are wearing on my patience. I did not attack you, I merely mentioned an obvious fact of history. You didn't ask about his record, you asked why he didn't win 10 tours.

It took two years for Lemond to recover from that accident...yes he came back, but two years off one's life is two years off one's life that cannot be recovered. Indeed, if you listen to what Lemond has said over the years, you'd know why he finally quit without having to post lame threads on the intrawebz.

Cipher

I had a chance to look over the bike that Greg rode to win that T.T. and in comparison I don't believe it was on par with the equipment available to the riders during the '05 tour. That said, was it the difference between the 2 times? I don't know... Their were certainly a lot of other factors to consider as well. (Terrain, headwinds, Temp. the design of the aero bars, and the position of the rider using them etc.) Being a little bias, I would like to think that the (slightly) improved equipment used in the '05 tour might have improved Greg's time by a few seconds...

Griffin2020

LeMond has said that most of the course in his record ITT was downhill, then flat. He also hates discussing it, and attempts to divert away from it. Perhaps because he was ot as clean as he would have us believe?

Cipher

Don't bet on it... (But I will ask him about that particular T.T.)

Howzit

If you have read the link I posted you dont have to click it, thanks. If you do not wish to participate in the thread, dont, thanks. Your invalid points are clearly to antagonize me, please dont, thanks.
Your post has no bearing, the record was set after his Gunshot, he won two tours de france after the gunshot.
Lastly, Greg credits his shortened career to doping scandals.

Moving on, I did think about the course, wind and so on, but still, a record of nearly 20 years? Even after Pros who have been known a Time Trial specialists?
Was the use of EPO that strong for other riders that they would destroy a man capable of riding with such strength?

Looking at the bike, I must admit, thats an extremely impressive speed.

bigfred 

Or, look at it this way: That record is proof positive that Greg is as big a doper as the rest. If all those that came after him had the 10-20% advantage that doping supposedly provides and yet the record stood for so long. Then logic would suggest that Greg too, was on the juice. Or, perhaps you would rather contend, Greg was/is simply 10-20% stronger than every other rider to have come along since. Wow, do you really expect that arguement to be accepted? If not. Then we must consider that for that record to have stood as long as it has, Greg was juiced to the gills for that ride.

Howzit

Exactly.
If Greg was 10-20% stronger, then why didnt he win something like 8 TdFs?
Thats what Im wondering

CrimsonKarter21

Greg Lemond, clean? My ass.
He did the same things that everyone else was doing. When he started getting slow, he took the clean stance and quit cycling.

Personally, I don't see Lemond as a winner of anything; not because of the dope, but because how he feverishly proclaims his cleanliness in a time that was tainted, and impossible to win clean.

Howzit

Ok, fair enough, but good sir, it would seem that EPO was indeed introduced at the time Greg was quiting. So, he won and set that record before EPO.
Having said that, most other stuff was fairly easy to detect at that point in time.
So what then, could he be on if anything?

Cipher

Having the support of a strong team surrounding you would certainly help. In his 1st win, he rode with only the support of 2 riders, Bauer and Hampsten (Hinault had the support of the rest of that team). In 1990, the support of his team was pathetic.

CrimsonKarter21

Yes, EPO was the only drug in 1989. You're absolutely correct.

And you can tell how easily detected drugs were back in 1989. Looka t how many times Laurent Fignon tested positive in the Tour alone, when he admitted to taking numerous drugs.



And next time, don't use over embellished proper English ironically, it makes you sound like an idiot.

Cipher

And of-course you have loads of facts to back this up...

Howzit

Ok, your a tough nut, ill give you that.

Please look at the wiki link I posted for reference.
All the common substances were easy to detect. (Apology accepted)
Nobody said that EPO was the only drug? Why do you seem to think that? (Again, refer to the wiki link I postes)

CrimsonKarter21

The same amount of facts that you have to contradict me. The tests from those days have nothing solid to them. They were a step above a multiple-choice drug test.

Laggard

Indurain was arguably stronger than Greg. Why didn't he win 10 TDFs?

All these doping accusations thrown around by people who know nothing. Don't like a guy? Accuse him of doping. Fuc*ing ridiculous and pathetic.

Howzit

:d:d

USAZorro

Let me interject here that, supporting your argument with wikipedia links in a college thesis will earn you an "F" from a reputable institution.

jaxgtr

If I am not mistaken, doesn't he still have some buck-shot still lodge in the body??? I got to imagine the lead could have been leaching in his system and causing issues that would have effect his performance then and now.

Howzit

Reid Rothchild

Is there something factually wrong in the wiki link he posted? If not, spare me the pedantics.

Yes, he's alluded to this recently and may have to undergo more surgeries to remove the bird shot. It actually was bird shot.

Because a guy(Mr. 60%)who utilized dope better than Indurain did, ended his reign. LeMond said he was in the best post shooting shape of his career in '91 and yet could only finish 7th.

Lighten up Francis! When you employ a guy whose only claim to fame is doping guys with EPO, it don't look too good. Sticking one's head in the sand is what's ridiculous and pathetic.

Really? They didn't catch Fignon, Delgado, Merckx, Ben Johnson? What year were you born? Jeez, they sent a man to the moon in '69. Seems to take a lot more technology to do that then to conduct any kind of doping or toxicology analysis.

Howsit, I know exactly what you're getting at. Even after the shooting accident LeMond should have won more if the sport was clean. Something changed drastically, and the Italians with Conconi, Ferrari, and Cecchini insttitutionalized doping with EPO.