Wavshrdr

I am not saying AB’s are a POS as they are not. I will tell you that from what I’ve seen, read and personally experienced AB’s support SERIOUSLY needs help. When initially reviewing AB’s product before buying it was sometimes shocking that a bike might have great drivetrain parts such as Ultegra or 105’s and then have some crappy hubs.

Ultimately the bents come from China Mascot/TW Bents. The difference is that Jeff offers consistently superb service whereas with Randy it is a hit or miss deal. Honestly the AB product deserves better service than Randy’s gives it.

If you as a prospective buyer perform due diligence you will see that there are a surprisingly large group of unhappy people. I know that AB went through some teething issues at first but the mediocre service still lingers. I know that you can’t make everyone happy but there are a large amount of unhappy people that waited a long time to have minor problems fixed.

If AB supplied service like Jeff does they would greatly increase their market share. I guest it is a testament to generally how good many of the AB bikes that IN SPITE of Randy’s poor service (not because of his good service) that they still sell.

While they used to seem like a screaming deal my experience has greatly tempered my enthusiasm. I think it would be best if someone who is considering buying an AB to assume they will get no support after the sale if something goes wrong. Then if they do get any help at all it will be a pleasant surprise.

If you want to see a very group of happy riders, go to the folding bikes section and look at the thread of Swift Folders and also the Downtube folders. The Swifts have an incredibly loyal following because they got a great bike AND good service without paying a huge price and the Downtube owners got a good bike with great service and an incredibly low price.

Downtube is quite similar to AB in that Yan imports the Downtubes and markets them directly. Unlike Randy, Yan has been incredibly responsive and involved. When he has a complaint he resolves it directly and head on. He then asks for changes to be made in his product lineup to lessen those issues in the future. On the rear occasion I had an issue I had a replacement part in my hands in less than a week! Yan is continually listening to his customers and continuously upgrading his product.

This would be a great thesis for someone in business school to do a compare and contrast analysis between the two companies which on the surface have similar businesses.

LandLuger

There has been a great deal of speculation concerning the inconsistancy of Randy's customer service. My first warranty issue went unanswered despite repeated emails--I eventually just fixed it myself out of pocket--while my most recent support issue was solved by a single phone call and a few days to ship me the needed part.

I'm afraid much of the problem is the language barrier which results in Randy getting a container full of bikes with whatever components CM wants to throw on the bikes. It also wouldn't hurt if Randy knew anything about bikes. Ok, that might be a little too harse, but half of the guys who post in the recumbent forum would be better suited to run support.

Wavshrdr

Just for the heck of it here is a post from the AB forum on another group that was just posted today. I have not edited it other than to clip out the author's info:

"I have the jet stream 2, from actionbent. My front tire busted. I looked on actionbent.com to get the specs and order a new tire. On the website the specs say the front tire is 20x1.5 so that is what I ordered. When the new tire arrived I noticed it was bigger than the one on the bike. The old tire is 20x1.25. My question is will the 20x1.5 tire fit on the rim for the jet stream 2.

I emailed Randy to find out -- no answer. I called actionbent and a rude man named Steve answered. He completely disregarded my question and was rushed to get off the phone. He said he would contact Randy. I have placed at least three orders with Randy. The first was the bike, roughly $600.00. Then, I ordered pedal extenders and now a tire. If I had known that after spending nearly $700.00 with this company that I would be treated so disrespectfully, I would have purchased a bike from Wal-Mart. I hope Wal-Mart sells recumbent bikes and Steve and Randy go out of buisness!"

Obviously someone didn't know the difference between an ERTO 406 and 451 tire possibly...tough to say as I wasn't there. Keep in mind this was from today and not weeks or months ago. Know who you are dealing with before you buy would be wise advice regardless of who you deal with.

LandLuger

That's too bad; stories like that do surface from time to time.

But if you're going to buy new and do your own maintenance then it is a good deal.

It's just sad that an otherwise affordable entry vehicle in the world of 'bents has to be soiled by inconsistent service.

Wavshrdr

I agree LL but it is sad when the "distributor" has no clue about his product. As I said before the product deserves a better front man here. Actually I hope that AB gets their act together. At some point I'd would be willing to consider another one.

jeff-o

The person who posted this message on the AB forums posted a follow-up, saying that a new tire was dispatched soon afterwards. Perhaps even before the above message was written. Randy does try to fix things, it just takes more than a day or two sometimes. I don't know why Steve was so rude though, he's been quite friendly whenever I talked to him.

Wavshrdr

I saw the post this morning and planned on adding a follow up to be fair. However it still doesn't excuse Steve's rudeness. I personally have experienced it on more than once.

Jeff- does your "Ghost" have front suspension too or just rear?

jeff-o

Nope, just rear. There might be room for a Pantour suspended hub in the front, but that's just about it.

I don't know if Steve & Randy read this forum, but they sometimes stop in and check the AB Yahoo forums... They may have seen that message, and if so I hope they realize that missteps like that can spread like wildfire. Best be careful!

Wavshrdr

Jeff- if we are intellectually honest here, the majority of the complaints are not about AB’s bikes themselves. I would like nothing better than to say how wonderful the bikes AND service was.

I am glad that a tire was sent. I am still dismayed that the person received such rude service. I hope that AB WILL improve their customer service. I would still potentially consider buying an AB at some point.

I did act in a prudent and open manner. Where there is good I’ll say so and vice versa. In general I am a pretty positive person and it did take a lot to convince me to not buy a AB at the time I was considering them. Sort of like wresting defeat from the jaws of victory…

I don’t wish Randy’s business any ill will. I want him to be successful. I would like to see the demographics of bent buyers. I imagine the will be more affluent and there fore expect a higher level of customer service.

blknwhtfoto

Quit your *****ing Wavshrdr, we know how you feel about AB. You don't have to apologize, but just be done with it. Or call Randy and tell him what you think of the company and how it could be made better. Just because people are more affluent does not give them any right to expect better service, you are just looking to *****, thats all and thats okay, but you've made your point so be done with it. Geez.

Wavshrdr

Obviously you didn't get it. It has nothing to do about whether I am affluent or not. The point is most of his clientele is not going to be poor and if they are more aware of how they are treated whether he likes it or not.

How can you communicate with someone who doesn't return calls, answer their phone, or respond to emails? They only are at the phones a few hours a day. I was told to call only from 10-2 (I think those are the hours). Giving feedback to AB is like urinating in the wind.

By any chance do you read the yahoo posts?

Bikes-N-Drums

I've seen plenty of people with problems and resultant gripes. I don't think I've ever seen someone go to such lengths to vehemently reiterate their woes.

Shaman

Just to reitterate MY experience. I worked with Randy to get an Actionbent Tadpole KNOWING I was at the whim of the Slow Boat from Tiawan and accepted the risk. Even so, when a firm date was set, Randy offered me a discount on any accessory I may want for the bike which I declined to take him up on since I knew the shipping status. This is above and beyond in my book.

When I recieved the Tadpole, it was complete and well packed. Shipping cost was more reasonable than any other online mailorder I've ever dealt with for such a large item. AND... most important to me was to get the color I WANTED... which was the Sunburst Orange. Randy knew what he was getting in the next shipment. For an importer, that is a feat in itself.

I also talked with Steve as I needed a bit more chain for my 6'2" frame and within an hour of emailing A.B., Steve calls on HIS nickle to resolve the questions in the email. The extra length of chain was at my door within 2 days.

Maybe it's THE WAY you communicate that keeps issues from being resolved. I have no problem with A.B. at all; as a matter of fact, I don't know where I could have gotten a better deal and such clear communication from an online importer.

Keep up the good work A.B.; Randy; Steve...

Wavshrdr

If/when I have a good experience with Randy I’ll be sure to post it. I am not one to accentuate only the negatives. Check out my positive responses to other companies in other forums for example. In general it takes a lot to tick me off as my nature is pretty agreeable. I’ve met a lot of forum members in person and/or helped them off-list and I’m sure they will agree that I am a very reasonable person.

I know a lot of you have gotten support from Randy and that is great. I am not trying to play devil’s advocate here. I carefully documented my experience with Randy’s company. Here is a point that I will leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions from. I’ll try and state it as unbiased as I possibly can.

If your business was important to you, wouldn’t you try and be as actively involved in it as you possibly could (within reason)? Jeff-o on this forum and others seems much more active in trying to help people and he does it in a manner by which he doesn’t directly try and solicit sales from it. It does it in a professional manner and seems to try very hard to keep his help from turning into any type of sales pitch to buy from him. I applaud him for that. By comparison Randy (or Steve’s) participation is virtually non-existent. Its almost as though he relies upon others to take up the slack.

This leads me to 2 prominent conclusions:

1.) He really isn’t that involved in his business and perhaps it is sort of a sideline or a hobby.
2.) Perhaps he has very little mechanical knowledge or experience with bikes and is not well suited for his particular role.

Of course there are potentially other options but these come to mind first. I would fully support Randy or Steve’s involvement here or on other forums. I realize you can’t please everyone all the time. I am not a difficult customer by any means. In general I am the kind of customer most bike shops would want. If I am treated well or even normally I actively encourage new people to try them out.

So at this juncture I have little to add to this discussion unless something significantly changes with my AB experience.

Bikes-N-Drums

But you keep adding anyway, don't ya?

You made your case very eloquently several times already. I must say though that it seems one of your posts appears following any other relaying a positive experience. Is there something more going on here? I mean, we've heard your caveat emptor very clearly already and most people wouldn't spend so much energy reiterating their customer service issue day after day. It doesn't seem so much as a guy with a customer service issue as it seems a smear campaign. Sorry, I've just never seen so many paragraphs written regarding a problem.

Wavshrdr

Mmm... let me see, maybe it wasn't because I had just one issue or incident. Smear to me denotes spreading lies or falsehoods in a deliberate desire to destroy the reputation of someone. That would then beg the question of having a positive reputation to destroy. I’ve done no such thing. In general I would say my positive posts on BikeForums outweigh the negative by about 500:1 as well. I’d love to be some day counted among Randy’s sycophants. I was like many people in that I believed that the negative things about AB were just outliers. I’ll give him a try again at some point in the future and see if things have improved.

Bikes-N-Drums

Hey man, I'm not coming down on you. I've just never seen anyone feel the need to so vehemently state their case.

gjshawk

I'm new to recumbents, and new to this post. I rode a df roadie for the last five years, riding around 1500 miles/year. This year I finally decided to try something different. Having never ridden a bent before, I was reluctant to spend $1500 and up, when I could get a pretty nice carbon fiber df for around that. I found AB by going thru Shopzilla. I was a little worried because there were no ratings on the company, but after checking them out, even calling them, I ordered their lwb Manta Ray.

I ordered over the 4th of July weekend, and pretty much only got an email saying that my order had been received. After the weekend, I called just to give myself the warm and fuzzy that things were on track, and I was really going to end up with a bike. I don't remember who answered, but they were not really rude, but a little short. It was probably Steve.

I got another call the next day or maybe the day after that, which I believe came from Randy, which confirmed my bike had been shipped. I even got a apology for not having been contacted sooner.

The bike arrived in good condition. Since I am not a bike geek, I only partially assembled it, then took it to the local LBS who has bent experience, and paid them to finish the assembly, which was mainly the cables to the deraillers. I was told immediately that the cable housings for both the brakes and the shifters from the handlebars were about 4 inches too short. Since I had already done the brakes and snipped off the excess, I had wasted two brake cables that had to be replaced. It was not that big a deal, but the housings should have been the right length. I didn't bother contacting AB about it.

I paid about $60 for the finish-up, which was not a problem for me. I discussed the components with the LBS, since they have some Suns and other models, and was told that they were consistent with a $600 bike, so I was not getting a great deal but not getting ripped off either. Since I am not a bike expert like my brother, who is several states away, I don't know whether they were being completely up front, but have no reason to think otherwise.

I've been riding for a week, and the wobbles are smoothing out. I like the bike, expecially the frame style, and the ride is excellent. I wish the seat had an upper crossbar to mount my bag. I need a rack or something. Other than that, I'd buy from AB again. I pretty much got what I was expecting, an entry level machine that didn't costs an arm and a leg, that I could upgrade as I liked over time. Lwb was the right choice for me too, I think, especially for a first timer. I like the stability, and I like the ride. The steel frame really absorbes the bumps. The bike is about as fast as my Trek 1000 was, but sometimes I wonder why I am speeding along when I could just cruise and check ouit the local scenery.

Sorry this is so long, but now I'm done.

Stupid

Oops.

Stupid

I've got *two* AB Tadpole's and though I don't get a chance to ride them as much as I'd like, they're an absolute blast when I do ride them. The only problem I had with mine was a cracked seat pan, but Randy fixed that little issue within three days by shipping a new one to me (at no charge/no shipping). He also paid the return shipping cost so I could return the damaged part in the same box.

As others have said, if you're at all mechanically inclined it won't be hard to complete the build. My only complaint was that the chain tool that comes with the trike was a POS (some have argued that isn't true) and I had to buy a decent tool to add the links.

It was the price that got me.. I knew I wanted a trike, but the idea of spending $2,500.00+ for one had my putting it off for a long time. I also wanted two of them so my wife and I could ride them together. When I found the ABT I found the perfect answer...... A *pair* of trikes for the price of one!

Now the only problem is finding a way to haul them both to the trial so we can ride them. ;-)

-T

blknwhtfoto

Wooo Hooo for the apple green. I think it is one of the snazziest looking colors I've ever seen on a bike(I have an AB Jetstream II that is green). The paint job is a little sketch(at least on my bike) I think I am going to get it powdercoated in another year or so if the paint keeps going the way it is.