Carbon fiber fail
09-27-15, 12:01 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
09-27-15, 12:15 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
09-27-15, 03:17 PM
#53
GATC
America's Cup yachts are where CF is truly pushed right to the breaking point. They break a lot. But you don't win without it.
09-27-15, 03:19 PM
#54
GATC
ps-> I was wondering who it was that face-planted, while I was watching the championship today, it was a junior:
https://velonews.competitor.com/2015/...umbling_386449
https://velonews.competitor.com/2015/...umbling_386449
09-27-15, 03:30 PM
#55
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
^ and how about we all quit speculating until there are som actual facts of what happened.
and btw, the rider got a spare bike and road to a pack finish
and btw, the rider got a spare bike and road to a pack finish
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
09-27-15, 06:37 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
Whew, made it. It was touch and for a bit. The CF was groaning and straining, but it held up. Woohoo!
Oh damn. I have to do it all over again tomorrow night. I hope my luck doesn't run out. I mean I really want to get to ride that new CF bike I'm building.
Oh damn. I have to do it all over again tomorrow night. I hope my luck doesn't run out. I mean I really want to get to ride that new CF bike I'm building.
Last edited by rpenmanparker; 09-27-15 at 06:52 PM.
09-27-15, 07:46 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,091
Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 404 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times
in
73 Posts
Last edited by timtak; 09-27-15 at 07:56 PM.
09-27-15, 07:54 PM
#59
Senior Member
Not wishing anything. I work with a framebuilder in my free time, and see far too many CF damage to list. Most of it is from rock impacts to the seat/chain stays or DT/BB area of mountain bikes, but there's no shortage of crash damage to road bikes either. Most of the damage I see on road bikes is the result of a wreck(not the cause), but high modulus CF isn't durable by any means.
For the record, I have over 20,000 miles on my Pedal Force CX1 frame with a full CF Winwood front fork. The Winwood fork was on my Gunnar Crosshairs that met an untimely death with around 900 miles on it thanks to an inattentive driver. The rear aluminum Open Pro rim on that bike was shattered into several pieces due to the impact. The front end of the bike appeared undamaged and I've been riding it since 2009.
09-27-15, 08:08 PM
#60
Senior Member
Carbon fiber breaks (you can exaggerate and say 'shatter' to describe some of the splinters) but metal also breaks when pushed past its ultimate tensile stress. Metal also fatigues and breaks well below its UTS. Google some aircraft failures attributable to this phenomenon (specifically stress risers due to the holes for the rivets used to secure the aluminum outer shell of the aircraft). Plenty of examples of steel and aluminum bicycle frame failures as well (Cannondale didn't earn the nickname 'Crack n' Fail' for nothing). You can also buy yourself a piece of heat treated aluminum (6061-T6 or better yet, 7075-T6) and try to bend it. See how far you get before it snaps.
Heat treated steel isn't any better. Ever done any testing to see how exact the heat treating process is? It isn't. And what happens when you over-harden steel? Snap! Then again, it also snaps when pushed past its UTS or when fatigued to a certain point. One of CFs biggest strong points is the fact that it doesn't fatigue nearly as quickly as metal, making it ideal for items subjected to cyclical stresses that also benefit from light weight, aircraft, automobile, and bicycle frames among those items.
Heat treated steel isn't any better. Ever done any testing to see how exact the heat treating process is? It isn't. And what happens when you over-harden steel? Snap! Then again, it also snaps when pushed past its UTS or when fatigued to a certain point. One of CFs biggest strong points is the fact that it doesn't fatigue nearly as quickly as metal, making it ideal for items subjected to cyclical stresses that also benefit from light weight, aircraft, automobile, and bicycle frames among those items.
09-27-15, 08:44 PM
#61
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
Posts: 7,281
Bikes: 07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Hmmm, crash damage...not exactly the best example of durability. And you've ascertained how that a metal frame would not have been damaged, too? And was the CF repairable? How repairable would a metal frame have been? Yes, I know you can't really answer this question or the first one.
For the record, I have over 20,000 miles on my Pedal Force CX1 frame with a full CF Winwood front fork. The Winwood fork was on my Gunnar Crosshairs that met an untimely death with around 900 miles on it thanks to an inattentive driver. The rear aluminum Open Pro rim on that bike was shattered into several pieces due to the impact. The front end of the bike appeared undamaged and I've been riding it since 2009.
For the record, I have over 20,000 miles on my Pedal Force CX1 frame with a full CF Winwood front fork. The Winwood fork was on my Gunnar Crosshairs that met an untimely death with around 900 miles on it thanks to an inattentive driver. The rear aluminum Open Pro rim on that bike was shattered into several pieces due to the impact. The front end of the bike appeared undamaged and I've been riding it since 2009.
I have a Pedal Force RS that I purchased as part of the group buy this forum did in 2007. It has been wrecked several times, and is still functionally sound. I'm sure ultra-lightweight frames, like the one rpenmanparker just purchased, would be a pile of broken CF after the wrecks my Pedal Force has been through.
Right now there's a Specialized Venge at my builder's shop waiting to have it's NDS chainstay and seatstay repaired. According to the bike owner, his wife's mountain bike fell over onto his bike. The CF repair, paint, and assembly/dis-assembly will cost just under $1k.
09-27-15, 09:10 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
09-27-15, 09:23 PM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
I'm on your side, but the problem is the weights aren't equal. There is only about 1/2 to 2/3 as much carbon by weight as steel.
09-27-15, 09:24 PM
#68
Vain, But Lacking Talent
In the first video: The "narrator" says the exact same thing I did. Most likely over-torquing the stem.
In the second: Sweet Lord, how many times do we have to dig this video up out of the abyss only to have to remind everyone that it was an ALLOY steerer that broke.
In the second: Sweet Lord, how many times do we have to dig this video up out of the abyss only to have to remind everyone that it was an ALLOY steerer that broke.
09-27-15, 09:25 PM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682
Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build
Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times
in
36 Posts
Sure I understand. And yes, the fork is fairly robust by today's standards but only by maybe 30 g or so.
09-27-15, 09:25 PM
#70
Vain, But Lacking Talent
09-27-15, 09:26 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times
in
177 Posts
Of course. If you try and make a lightweight frame of any type it's going to be more susceptible to damage. That should be obvious to everyone. If you are going to go lightweight the best practical material is CF. That should also be obvious to everyone. I can't believe there's even an argument on this topic.
09-27-15, 09:27 PM
#72
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
Posts: 7,281
Bikes: 07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The lightest CF frames are far lighter than any steel or aluminum frames available. These CF frames are plenty stiff to be rideable, but they are very easily damaged by impacts.