deepakvrao

Hi Guys,

Wife and I are building titanium bikes which will used for light touring also. As it is not ONLY for touring want to keep it light too.

Was thinking of 24/28 for front rear wheels. Hope RS or DT Swiss 350 hubs, DT Swiss Revolution Spokes, and Velocity a23 rims

Wheelset weight will be about 1570 grams

HOPE with DT Rev
Front Rear
Rim 450 Rim 450
Front Hub 118 Rear Hub 268
Spokes 106.08 Spokes 123.76
Nipples 24 Nipples 28

698.08 869.76

Total: 1567.84

Was wonderingt if it might be too delicate. I weigh about 155, my wife weighs about 110. We will be carrying Ortlieb handlebarbags which might be 10 pounds, and a backpack that attaches to the seatpost which might carry about 12-15 pounds.

Other option was going 28/32 with the DT Swiss

DT SWISS with DT Rev
Rim 450 Rim 450
Front Hub 149 Rear Hub 265
Spokes 123.76 Spokes 141.44
Nipples 28 Nipples 32

750.76 888.44

Total: 1639.2

Am I being stupid in going with the reduced spoke count?

Like I said, looking at light bikes for the non touring days when we will be doing climbs.

joejack951

If you want light weight wheels, you can build them with 32 spokes front/rear lighter than either of your wheelsets. My commuter wheels weigh around 1400 grams and that's with a disc front hub amd the aforementioned 32 f/r spokes. They have held up fine even with a 30 lb. rear rack load.

10 Wheels

"Am I being stupid in going with the reduced spoke count?"

YES

I have broken 24, 28, and 32 spoked wheels.

Why take a chance when you are out in the boondocks?

Broke 32

grolby

I think you'll be fine, except that I would suggest you pony up the cash for better rims, like a HED Belgium or Pacenti SL23. They're a lot higher quality than the A23, as well as stronger and stiffer. All of which make for a stronger wheel. The better durability is worth the extra money.

Edit: to put it another way, I wouldn't buy a 24/28 A23 wheelset for anything. 32 spokes only for those rims.

rpenmanparker 

As an aside, do you know what the origin of the phrase "pony up" is? No fair looking it up.

deepakvrao

Could you share the build please?

joejack951

Sure:

Rims: IRD Cadence VSR (yes, I used an offset rim on the front due to the disc brake hub). These are no longer available apparently and replaced by a heavier rim: Cadence 700c Rim ? Interloc Racing Design / IRD

I'd consider using a similar Kinlin rim (XR-200 or XR-270) that many have had good experiences with as an alternative. I haven't looked into what is available as an offset rim these days but hopefully someone still makes them as I didn't buy extras of the Cadence VSR rims and wouldn't want to be stuck with more uneven tension if I ever need to do a rebuild.

Hubs: Front - American Classic Disc 130 (current version is lighter but 15mm thru axle only: https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...26&category=81)
Rear- American Classic RD-205 (https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...&category=2824)

Spokes: Front - all DT Revolution
Rear - DT Revolution NDS, DT Competition DS

Bike (slightly different now, and with lots more miles on it):

GeoKrpan

I'd use prebuilt 24/28 wheels, for example from Shimano, but not handbuilt.

joejack951

Why? I'd use nothing but hand-built for a touring bike simply because replacement spokes or parts in general would be so much easier to source if a mishap occurred. I'm also clearly in favor of using 32 spokes as the bike is far more likely to remain rideable if a spoke breaks. I actually cracked the flange on my first American Classic Disc front hub hitting a nasty pothole at night in the rain. Thanks to the disc brake and lots of other spokes, I rode that wheel in that state for a few weeks before realizing what even occurred. It looked just slightly out of true.

JohnDThompson 

Low spoke counts are used more for aerodynamic reasons than for weight reduction. You can actually build a lighter wheel using more spokes because the rim can be much lighter when there are more spokes to share the load. More spokes mean less chance of breakage as well, which is a significant benefit with loaded touring in remote areas.

Jiggle

Pacenti SL23 isn't a rim I would pick if I wanted durability.

fietsbob

A 16"~20" wheel It would be fine. larger 700c?. bring Money to buy a replacement wheel when It Fails on the road.

cross your fingers .. Our LBS mails Exotic Hubs to your house when a wheel fails, and provides something More common.

in its place .. Ie Shimano mid line.

Does The difference that the weight of a 32/36 spoke wheel set seem like a Lot to You. ?


How about building a more durable set of wheels for touring ,
and buying the exotic boutique low spoke count set when you come Home again.

deepakvrao

I live in India. I pay a fortune for shipping and then 45% import duty on cost + shipping costs. So, small stuff I can pick up when I travel. Rims are the difficult part, as we almost always have bikes when we travel too. I thought of Velocity as they have a dealer in India.

79pmooney

I would stay away from low count wheels because if something does happen (say you break a spoke) the wheel will be unrideable until it is repaired. And unless you are keeping your tour close to cities with bike shops, that spoke and the expertise to deal with it may be unavailable.

Yes, with high quality wheels, spokes shouldn't break. Sticks and debris on the road should never have the nerve to interfere with the spokes of a $400 wheel. (But when that does happen, having a few extra, and therefor somewhat expendable, spokes can be a crash saver. This wasn't touring, but I had the quick-release from another bike remove 9 consecutive spokes on one side once at ~30 mph. Conservative rim and 36 spokes. I rode the bike to a stop. (And rode the wheel the next day.) No way that could have happened on a low spoke count wheel.

(And just for fun - I picked up a used 28 spoke DT wheel. Went to put it on my bike to ride it but it felt heavy with the same tire and tube of my 32 spoke 3X Open Pro wheel. Threw them on the scale. The Open Pro was 100+ grams lighter.)

Ben

GeoKrpan

My comment was about low spoke count wheels. I'd sooner trust a Shimano low spoke count wheel over a handbuilt low spoke count wheel. I use Shimano 28/28 spoke MTB wheels for touring and I have full confidence in them. The better Shimano wheels use straight pull spokes which are easy to replace, no cassette or rotor removal required. Just carry some extra spokes.

joejack951

The wheel will be as durable as the care taken in building it. If Shimano can churn out machine built wheels with near-perfect tension balance then that's good to know. That hasn't been my experience with machine built wheels, though. I know that the wheels coming off my truing stand are evenly tensioned.

Interesting point about servicing straight pull spokes that I hadn't considered. If you have spares, that's a great feature. If you don't, you may be SOL for a while.

GeoKrpan

Shimano wheels are really good. I don't think they make a wheel with more than 28 spokes, and, mine are intended for mountain biking. I don't think Shimano would put something out there that doesn't work.

Low or high count, I always carry spare spokes but I have never had to use them. Just making sure there are no loose spokes really helps as opposed to perfectly even spoke tension which is ideal.

joejack951

I don't think they would either (release a bad design) but that doesn't preclude assembly errors.

Once a spoke is loose* the damage has (possibly/likely) been done. Having them properly tensioned to begin with typically prevents them from ever loosening, or it does in my experience building my own wheels and rebuilding wheels that previously had spokes loosen.

*Or do you religiously check spoke pairs such that you'd notice a loosening spoke before it's a real problem? I wish I could say that I was that thorough.

Bike Gremlin

Weight difference between 23 and 36 spoke wheel is not worth reduced risk of braking and reduced function when one spoke breaks. I'd never go below 36 spokes except for racing.

joejack951

Going with 32 spokes does yield a lot more hub and rim options than 36. I'm not sure if I'd have used 36 spokes if it were an option when I built my wheels. It wasn't for the rims or hubs I wanted to use so I didn't even consider it.

Bike Gremlin

Each to their own. I have no problems finding decent quality hubs and rims for 36 spokes. Less choice, but still easy to find.

Just to make sure: I consider anything made by Shimano of Alivio / Tiagra or higher class to be a very good quality hub - they've lasted me well with no problems. I'm also more than happy with rims that aren't light weight, top racing class, prefer "touring" models. I like wheels to be as bombproof as practical.

joejack951

That's all I was saying.

Agreed on the Shimano hubs. I specifically wanted lightweight 'as bombproof as practical within my weight target' wheels for my commuter hence my component choices. I believe I achieved my goals given the loads I carry on that bike.

I have also towed a Burley kiddie trailer (24 lbs.) plus my son (38 lbs.) plus his bike (12.5 lbs.) plus lunch (1-2 lbs.) using that same bike so it is pretty robust even with all the known strength compromises I made. The bike weighed under 24 lbs. as pictured (easily under 20 lbs. without all the accessories).

GeoKrpan

I don't think they have to checked religiously, just every now and then. Give 'em a pluck when the bike is in the repair stand.

deepakvrao

I have two pairs of 105 [5800 series] hubs that I had ordered to upgrade our Bike Friday wheels. Now I'm not doing that. What do you guys think about lacing those to the Velocity a23 rims? 32 spokes. Are those solid hubs?

Jiggle

Hubs are solid and A23 will be fine. You can get the A23 OC for the rear.