RChung

When climbing or riding on the flat, speed decreases with decreased cadence (in any given gear ratio). Power decreases with decreased speed. Crank torque and pedal force are almost constant with decreased power (in any given gear ratio, on the flat or while climbing a hill) -- to the extent it isn't constant, it decreases; it doesn't increase. So less crank torque and less pedal force makes your knees hurt? Woah. When you coast down hill (or, when you sit in a chair or sleep at night), your cadence and crank torque are zero. Do your knees hurt then? That would be bad. My condolences.

Machka 

Hmm ... guess you have no idea.

RChung

Ah, so when climbing a steep hill in a given gear ratio (like, your lowest), you're saying you (and many others?) increase your cadence in order to avoid knee pain? My goodness gracious.

Machka 

Nope, that's not what I'm saying.

RChung

Ah, so you're saying that *both* decreasing and increasing your cadence hurts your knees? What's your magic cadence that you have to hold constant in order to avoid knee pain? That must be very restrictive.

Machka 

Nope, that's not what I'm saying.


Probably best to accept that you just simply have no idea.

Machka 

Back to the topic at hand ...

How close is your closest hill?

RChung

Well, I can see how you've averaged 9 posts a day for 13 years. You must have a lot of time to post since riding at any cadence whatsoever hurts your knees.

Machka 

And I know that you are able to use your exceptional math skills to figure out how much time it takes me to make 9 posts when I can type one up in about a minute. Just in case you're having trouble figuring it out ... that's about 9 minutes of my day.

Thanks for noticing!!


Now ... do you think it's possible for you to address the OP's question?

Gege-Bubu

Great answers, thanks!

The closest hill is about 20 miles, it is short, but step hill 8%
https://www.strava.com/segments/613503
I had to take a car to park closer to it, because about an hour warm up and another hour of cool down do not make much sense to me.


When I did the hill repeat, I just climbed up and went down to do it again. The lap was about 8 min,
I could do probably do it up to 10 times

I dropped my weight about 9-10 lb since last year, I dont think I can drop more (I am 135lb at 5'6" 170cm)

I thought only about watts, but did not think that climbing will engage other muscles - great advise, thanks
Also, what you said about heat, eating and drinking on climb was valuable.

Descends is another story, probably it is a good idea to check my brakes.

And this is the event I am thinking to sign up:
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/9387530

I am thinking to get new cassette 11-28, instead of 11-25 I have now. But for just one ride I don't really want to change crankset. I have now 53/39, I hope I will survive on 39/28 combination.

I probably will do the same hill repeats and will try to make it in weekly basis, other than that I will stick to my regular plan.

kbarch

. The answer should be clear: loss of momentum and slowness. There are times when dropping cadence on a climb is advisable to regulate HR, but if you're already in your biggest cog and making your way up OK, normally you look for opportunities to increase cadence (and maybe regain a cog), not lower it.

RChung

No, no, I don't think I have exceptional math skills. I think the only thing that's evident is my math skills (modest though they are) are superior to yours. But I'm pleased that you've recanted and are now saying that you're NOT saying that lower cadence hurts your knees. Phew. Glad we finally got that straightened out.

As for the OP, I think he's gotten pretty good advice thus far: if he has the choice, he should train on terrain that matches as closely as possible the terrain on his target ride. That will help him both with his power and his bike handling. If that's not possible he can train on the flat. It's not ideal but I've ridden in the Alps and Pyrenees on the basis of training on the flats, and while there were moments when I wished I'd done more mountain training I've never regretted those trips, nor would I have passed them up simply because I hadn't had mountains on which to train.

kbarch

You may have been facetious there, but it's no joke. It's exhausting, but I DO frequently increase my cadence (speed up) to get over hills because it is preferable to the agony and frustration of low cadence. But in my case it's not knee pain, just the feeling of getting bogged down, struggle to maintain a straight, smooth line, etc.

Machka 

Nope, that's not what I'm saying.

Machka 

Good plan!