my58vw

Alright I am about to embark on a quite scary time trial, (i.e. sufferfest) which is different from my normal itt's, it is quite hilly... actually there are three hills on the 4.1 mile itt that are going to be trouble, none of them have much of a run at them, which means not alot of momentum going up the hill. Here are the hills... all within a mile stretch... can you say suffer.

1. A 7 - 8 percent 75 foot approximate hill right after a right hand turn, not much if any time to gain momentum up the hill.

2. After a nice little downhill and a sharp 180 degree corner (hairpin) a 100 or so foot 8 - 9% + hill and finally...

3. Puke Hill, a 200 foot hill starting at 8 percent, quickly going to about 10 percent and at the top a small lip at approx 13 - 14 percent.

All this is followed by an "easy" 3 - 4 percent mile climb to the end.

Now I have two bikes to attempt this with, both weigh the same (give or take .25 of a pound) but the gearing is different...

1. My tt bike, cosmic carbone wheels, 42-54, 11-23 gearing, 10 speed. 19.2 pounds, full aero

2. My road bike, cosmic carbone wheels (same set), 39-53, 11-23 gearing, 10 speed, 18.9 pounds

The time trial is Saturday but I am going to attack the hills tomarrow on the TT bike and see if they are doable... now the question is the following, with the gear selection I have 1. which bike would you take and 2. What do you think a reasonable gearing would be for it to not blow up on? I am thinking possibly a 42-23 or a 39-19 could do the hills but I am looking for someone who rides this kind of stuff all the time. I can not blow up on the last hill either because I have 1 mile of mild climbing after it.

Also how would you approach these types of hills? Sit and mash (more than likely for the short ones) or stand and mash?

Oh ya, the record is 13:52 on the course, 18 MPH avg, I am thinking in the twelves...

climbo

we have no idea. Honestly, only YOU know what gear you can push and not blow up in. Ask your coach - do you still have this a or what? If not, I suggest you post less stuff herre and be out riding more, go and see, that's the only way.

nitropowered

i agree, get a 11/25 or pop on a 39 on the tt.

popeye

" Going slow over the top costs a lot of time because you don't carry speed"

That relates to sports car racing. The most important corner to get right is the
one leading to the longest straight because you carry whatever speed you gain for a
long time.

my58vw

I already rode today, sprint intervals this morning. I am in class today...

The 11-25 or 12-25 sounds like a viable option, I may look into that...

I am honestly more afraid of actually getting up the hill with such a high gear... of course I was able to climb (almost) a 17 percent short hill in a 39-23 so...

OC Roadie

Good advice, wear an HR and you should be able to keep from blowing up too early. What TT is it? I've been looking for a race this weekend other than the San Diego Omnium, or CBR crit.

my58vw

It is a local rec club itt that draws racers from all over the area, not a USCF event. I am doing the CBR race on Sunday, will be one "painful" weekend...

I will go out tomarrow and run the hills and see where I am at!

Al1943

Yeah it really is your decision. But if you were using my body you'd want the lighter bike with lighter wheels and some clip-on bars. I do time trials on Cosmic Carbones but not on the ride you've described, I'd want my lighter road wheels, 53-39 up front and a 12-25 cassette.
I'm sure you'll be better off with your body.

Al

my58vw

What I need a set of really lite (1400 grams or less) wheels for hilly itts but for the use I would get with them they are not worth it. We will see how it goes with the run tomarrow but it would be nice to have a 12-25 lying around.

The weight of the bike is a non issue, the full aero frame would theoretically be faster, expecially on the downhills but the uphills are where the time is made. -- expecially with a high gear ratio... but a 42-23 is still rather low... 48 gear inches... same as a 39-21... so if I can climb the hill in a 39-21 then I can climb it in a 42-23...

jitteringjr

Switch your Bontragers over to your Cervelo to save some weight. Sounds like the 42,23 will get you there.

55/Rad

I use to say the same thing and I don't even race. Now, I play mix and match seemingly forever with wheels and cassettes. It's all part of the madness that really kicked in after I got my second bike.

55/Rad

my58vw

About 20 grams for the aero wheelset (race x lite aero), 40 g for the race lites... hard to justify... now if they were the normal race x lites then I would...

American Sprint 350's anyone?

pdxtex

they say you conserve 10-12% of your energy when you do seated vs. standing climbs. that being said, if you are pretty light, id stand and mash. if you are a bigger dood, then id say conserve your energy and let your quads do the work while being seated and spinning fast. those hills sounds steep but short so id say stand all the way...not sure what to suggest on gearing though. i usually don't pay attention to ratios and listen to my heart (literally) instead. have fun.

tom

55/Rad

I have both the X-lite Aeros and the 350 sprints w/Sapim spokes. You will feel a world of difference going up the hills with the Sprints. For the flats and the descents, the Aeros are the better call.

Not much help is it? Since it only a 4.1 TT, the Sprints would be my call.

55/Rad

Dutchy

Taking a 25t to an ITT is like taking a knife to a gun fight. Unfortunately the big fast guys are going to power over those small hills (standing) in the 21t. If you feel comfortable in the 25t then use it. Good luck. Tell us how you go.

CHEERS.

Mark

OC Roadie

I am still debating about doing the CBR crit on Sunday or going for a solo century. Kind of extreme opposites, 30 minutes with 50 guys at 25-30mph, or 5-6 hours by myself at 19mph. I'd like to do the Cyclo-Vets road race on Saturday, but I gotta play Mr. Mom. You should have done the San Clemente race last Saturday, it was a fun course. Maybe I'll see you Sunday. Good luck at both.

jitteringjr

Your signature just said x lites so I didn't realize you have the aeros instead. But hey, if you did, it would save some weight. Why don't you just be a man and buy some of these wheels so you can save some real weight. You could just sell your VW.

my58vw

Oh ya... right!

I will definitly post a race report on it... I have done many many long and flatter itts, the main reason I got the tt bike, the hilly itts are crazy...

But then all tts are just sufferfests anyways, flat or not, the flat ones you just go faster...

campyman099

I would chose the road bike for the TT, maybe slap some short aero extensions on so you can use them on the final gradual climb. Other than that, I'd stand on every hill and try to recover on the downhill. That's what my 14 year racing history instinct tells me. Good Luck.

my58vw

Definitly thanks for the advice. I am heading out to the course tomarrow with both bikes. I am planing to ride the hilly section several times with both bikes to get a feel for speed on both. I think that I can climb both hills at about 12 MPH, which translates into about 3 - 4 minutes total climbing on the real climbs (the three). I figured out if I want to break 13 minutes (have a 12 - 12:59 itt) I need to average about 21 MPH. I have done the last gradual climb many times, it is a normal training climb, and I can average about 20 - 21 MPH on it in "race mode", i.e. above threshold (zone 5a), whereas a normal climb is about 18 - 19 MPH fresh, which in the time trail is probably true.

Overall the course I would consider to be rolling, with some very fast downhill / flat at the beginning. What is going to be hard is the factors that I can not control, expecially the first corner where someone will be stopping traffic. (very high speed road with the downhill). The main issue with the course is like the paris nice (closest reminder) prologe is very technical in the downhills and can most likey not be navigated in the aero bars part way due to two near 180 degree hair pins between hills two and three, but I can make a nice smooth transistion to the bullhorns and use some crit skills to navigate the corners. After the last (and the biggest) climb I am home free and can push the limits up the gradual climb and sprint on the finish.

I went out tonight after work (got home about 30 minutes ago) and did a few climbs on a local hill (lighted) right next to my house (about 5 - 6 percent) with the road and tt bikes (2 each). I find the the 42-23 is right between the 39-23 and the 39-21, and the difference is negigable compared to the other gears. I actually when sitting on the extreme nose of the saddle, biggest angle possible and very aero on the bullhorns (like riding real low on the hoods) I climbed the fastest compared to all bikes. Now the test was a little flawed because the trek had the carbones and the cervelo the race x lite aeros. I think the tt bike will take just about anything that the road bike can at this point.

Tomarrow will tell lots of things.

Well I better get to sleep, need 8 hours to be ready for intervals in the morning (and my 11:30 am tickets to SW, return of the sith

socalrider

Use you road bike.. The TT is so short, the aero advantage is very little.. You may need the lower gears that your road bike has..

Please stop overanalyzing every pedal stroke.. If your not blowing chunks by the end you did not go hard enough..

A 200 ft. hill called puke hill is kinda funny.. I was thinking about this the other day when I rode to the top of Mt. Baldy.. Especially the switchbacks that go from 16% to 20% in the corners.. That is a puke hill..

terrymorse 

Any hill can be a puke hill...if you climb it fast enough. The 2-3 minute hills are the worst, since they're short enough that you can really drill them.

my58vw, it's been shown that in a TT, a slightly greater effort on hills and slightly lesser effort on the flat produced the fastest time.

Since it's a personal preference, I don't have any recommendations for gearing. For me, I'd rather spare my legs than have to push a big gear and cook my legs. I did a TT recently that had 500-600-ft climbs. I geared way down and spun up them at about an 80 cadence, keeping my HR right at theshold. I set a personal best climbing rate during that TT.

TheKillerPenguin

Or when you misjudge the height and length of a climb.

MaximumPoser

58VW,
Think about what you are saying:


1. A 7 - 8 percent 75 foot hill right after a right hand turn,

2. 100 or so foot 8 - 9% + hill

3. a 200 foot hill at 8 percent to about 10 percent and at the top a small lip at approx 13 - 14 percent.

THAT'S A TOTAL 400 ft. OF HILLS, NOT EVEN AN EIGHTH MILE!! You should be able to roll these fairly well. Go with the bike that is more confortable and don't worry about the gears as these small hills aren't going to make a difference.

my58vw

I am not worried about the length, I am worried about the grade, you do not roll over a 13 percent lip...