Originally Posted by ******bagonwhlz

What do you think makes up the seasoning part of that great BBQ? It's plants! You can spice up any plant food at all to taste the same as your BBQ.
anyway I will leave this hopeless subject alone.

Originally Posted by gonesh9

I've been vegan about 8 years, and feel in great shape. There's no reason you can't be just as healthy as a non-vegan if you just put some effort into making sure you're eating a well-rounded diet. Lots of whole foods is key. Don't let the common protein myths fool you, it's actually quite easy to get all the protein you need as long as you're aware. A lot of the cop-out veg proteins out there are variations of soy, which are just fine but you don't want to over-do the soy. Seitan is a wheat gluten that is very high in protein, and easy to prepare. Beans and rice consumed together within a day produce a great protein. A variety of nuts and seeds will help out as well. A lot of ethnic foods are going to be superior as far as good veg food over the typical Western style fare.

To me the B12 issue, as Ziggurat and Umbra pointed out, is one of the most important to keep in mind. Typically once you have enough it is stored in your body for years, but vegans need to make sure they are getting some just to be safe....it does irreversable damage to your nervous system if you become deficient in it.

There's a lot of vegan junk food out there... just be sure to consume real food instead and most likely you'll be healthier than most you're racing against.

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

I was trying to leave this thread alone honestly.

See https://www.westonaprice.org if you care to. The Weston A Price Foundation supports vegetarianism if that's your thing but not veganism. Part of the reason for this is that no true traditional vegan society has ever existed. There is one traditional society that claims to be vegan however closer inspection reveals that they are inadvertently consuming insect protein with there home grown vegetables.

The B12 thing is important and WAPF doesn't recommend synthetic supplements.

The WAPF is also VERY concerned about the ethics of eating meat although there response is to exercise your consumer power to purchase meat and animal products from animals that have been raised ethically on pasture by small farmers who care about there animals. Meat from animals raised on feed lots is totally unacceptable.

You have to be careful with soy too if you care about ethics. It's now soy production, not beef production that's leading to the deforestation of the Amazon rain forest.

Regards, Anthony

Originally Posted by jstockton858

yeah well any logical person would admit living without the harm of an insects or animals is completely impossible. the whole veganism lifestyle however is to reduce the amounts of animals being killed and reduce the amount of destruction to the enviornment caused by factory farming. also if it wasnt for cattle being the leading destructor of rainforests, soy wouldnt have to take up any more land than it already has to. in addition maybe you should take into the account that the US (which im assuming you are from) doesnt readily accept a soy based diet therefore little space is set aside for soy farms and such causing them to be made cheaper abroad. ALSO how much of this soy production do you think goes to feeding the animals that are being mass produced for slaughter? A lot.

Originally Posted by jstockton858

ALSO how much of this soy production do you think goes to feeding the animals that are being mass produced for slaughter? A lot.

Originally Posted by gonesh9

Lots of whole foods is key. Don't let the common protein myths fool you, it's actually quite easy to get all the protein you need as long as you're aware.

Originally Posted by ed073

Cool. Got it. INteresting philosophy.

I think it was Anthony Bourdain who said: "You shouldn't vicitimise vegetarians, they've already suffered enough."

Originally Posted by Thylacine

Hopefully Bourdain will get eated by lions or aliens or something, just so we don't have to listen to any more of his pseudo New York 'I'm so bourgeois chic' brown-nosing chest-beating machismo 1950's dribble.

Originally Posted by jstockton858

yeah well any logical person would admit living without the harm of an insects or animals is completely impossible. the whole veganism lifestyle however is to reduce the amounts of animals being killed and reduce the amount of destruction to the enviornment caused by factory farming.

Originally Posted by jitteringjr

Just curious, but what would happen to the environment, if all the lions, hyenas, cheetahs, and other carnivores decided to become vegans too?

Humans are carnivores and if we all decided to take up the vegan cause, the effects on the environment would de disastrous. It would be so ironic that a movement whose cause is to save the animals would end up killing multitudes more than if the status quo was maintained.

We are a part of the natural food chain no matter how much you try to separate yourself from it. The real threat to the environment is the human population explosion. If you really want to protect the environment, why not speak out against having more than 2 children per couple? (Any more than 2 increases the worlds population from one generation to the next.)

You may now begin the beatings.

Originally Posted by Thylacine

We are not part of the food chain, either.

Originally Posted by Thylacine

The 'food chain' is a basic concept of who eats whom.

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Does food chain really apply to the majority of humans? unles syou hunt your own food id say no. As far as ive always understood it food chain is where you either hunt to eat or are hunted to be eaten. the most hunting people do is looking for the local food dispensary.