literacer

is soy absorbed into teh body better than whey protein?

nitropowered

I've read that soy protein lowers your testosterone levels. I'll stick to my whey.

531Aussie

https://www.theomnivore.com/The%20Soy%20Page.html

shimanopower

All this talk make me want a nicely cooked steak.

Vegetarianism is stupid. Animals are best used for eating and making crap out of them. I think it's mean to be cruel to animals but I don't think it should be illegal. I mean putting a person in jail for killing a dog is crazy! It's a dog!! And your going to take away the freedom of a human for it? I would be pissed! I would go to court dressed in the blood of a thousand animals.

AnthonyG

This is a stupid statement to make and I think your just baiting people for the fun of it. Being at the top leave us with a duty and responsibility. It's not a power trip.

Regards, Anthony

brianallan

I haven't read beyond page 1, but as a vegetarian roadie I wanted to add some information.

I consulted my aunt, who's been a nutritionist for many years, asking her if I was getting adequate protein. She told me that I probably shouldn't be so concerned with protein as I should be with my B vitamins. This has already been alluded to, but I'll state it simply. Don't over-worry or over-emphasize protein intake. With the advent of soy-protein, it's very easy to get adequate amounts of protein. My most important advice would be water consumption when digesting large amounts of protein (i.e. 20g cliff builders bars). Your liver (or is it kidneys) have a very hard time digesting protein in such large volumes, and it takes a lot of water. To take strain off the organs, make sure you're taking a lot of water with your protein supplements.

Regarding the B vitamin issue - I have a theory as to why the RDA of B-12 in your supplements are at 1000%. Synthetic B-12 or rather, non-animal derived B-12 is difficult for your body to absorb. The amount of B-12 in the supplement might need to be at that level so your body can absorb a proper amount.

Also, make sure you're getting enough iron in your diet.


my .02

good luck!

sininen

B12 Isn't found naturally in meat either. It's produced by bacteria. Vegans can get that same bacteria if we eat unwashed vegetables, but because of all the nasty stuff that's put on our produce these days, we can't eat them unwashed. B12 is found in animals because they have gotten it through eating unwashed vegetables and then stored the vitamin in their bodies.

So B12 is NOT an explaination as to why we should not be vegans.

Teresa

dee-vee

I gave up dairy and meat because its bad for you. Sure, humans can live on meat or practicaly everything else just fine but they wont live as long as a vegan in the long run. Also check out notmilk.com and you can see why dairy is not good for you. Do you honestly think drinking up a liquid that is designed for little cows to grow big and gain tons of weight is good for humans? It defys all common sense.

AnthonyG

Your mostly correct except for the fact that vit B12 comes exclusively from animal sources. Most of the other one's your right.

Here's an excert from a Weston A Price article on vitamins,

Vitamin B Complex: All the water-soluble B vitamins work as a team to promote healthy nerves, skin, eyes, hair, liver, muscle tone and cardiovascular function; they protect us from mental disorders, depression and anxiety. Deficiency of the B vitamin complex can result in the enlargement and malfunction of almost every organ and gland in the body. The best source of B vitamins is whole grains—refinement thus wastes this essential source. They are also found in fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes, seafood and organ meats; they can also be produced by intestinal bacteria. B1 (thiamine) was the first water-soluble vitamin to be discovered. Deficiency leads to the disease beriberi. Recent evidence indicates that B1 deficiency is the root cause of anorexia and other eating disorders.9 It is essential for the manufacture of hydrochloric acid and has been used to treat constipation, fatigue, herpes and multiple sclerosis. Sugar consumption rapidly depletes vitamin B1. B2 or riboflavin is found in a variety of whole foods. Frequent cracks in the lips and corners of the mouth is a sign of deficiency. Deficiency of B3 or niacin results in the disease pellagra, characterized by dermatitis, dementia, tremors and diarrhea. The amino acid tryptophan can be converted to niacin and has been used to treat a variety of symptoms indicative of niacin deficiency. Pantothenic acid, vitamin B5, found in organ meats, egg yolks and whole grains, is essential for the proper function of the adrenal glands. It plays a vital role in cell metabolism and cholesterol production. Pantothenic acid can improve the body's ability to withstand stress. Recent studies have revealed that vitamin B6 or pyridoxine, found mostly in animal products, contributes to the proper functioning of over one hundred enzymes. Deficiencies in B6 have been linked to diabetes, nervous disorders and coronary heart disease. They are widespread in the US because excess B1 and B2, added to white flour, interferes with B6 function and because Americans no longer have access to one of the best sources of this heat-sensitive nutrient—raw milk. The B vitamin folic acid counteracts cancer by strengthening the chromosomes; folic acid deficiency can result in babies born with neural tube deformities like spinal bifida. B12 is needed to prevent anemia and nervous disorders as well as to maintain fertility and promote normal growth and development. Usable B12 is found only in animal foods. An early symptom of B12 deficiency is a tendency to irrational anger. B15 (pangamic acid) and B17 (nitrilosides) protect against cancer; the former is found in grains and seeds; the latter in grasses, sprouts, buckwheat, legumes and many fruit seeds. Traditional diets were much richer in nitrilosides than our own.

And here's the reference for the full article, https://www.westonaprice.org/basicnut...minprimer.html

By the way I don't wash vegetables because tap water is nastier than anything on the vegetables but I don't find this to be a good source of vit B12. On the odd occasion that I don't eat enough meat, and I don't realy eat a lot I realy now about it. I consume a fair bit of dairy and a small amout of meat. You may be partialy correct about B12 in that animals need to have the right foods to produce it but humans only absorb it properly if it comes second hand from animal sources.

We need animal foods and we need to exercise our responsibility too properly care for the animals.

I'm not trying to turn vegans into meat eaters but I do beleive that you should consume dairy and eggs and if you have problems over the ethical treatment of animals, which everyone should then you need to exercise your consumer power to obtain fresh produce from small, organic, caring farms.

This isn't easy but the WAPF site and www.realmilk.com has references. Untill recently I was getting fresh raw dairy from a farmer 1000km away so it can be done.

Regards, Anthony

AnthonyG

I had a quick look at this site and actually some of the things there the www.realmilk.com people will agree with. Basically pasturized milk isn't realy that good. Unpasturized milk is wonderful. I did have access to raw milk untill recently but in it's abscence I have just yoghurt, sour cream and some cheese. The fermentation proccess helps to nulify the problems with pasturization. It's still advisable to get your dairy from specialist, organic producers.

Regards, Anthony

jennings780

Why give up cheese and milk? Its not good for you. I am amazed that the diary council and the dairy producers have been able to convince our country that dairy is a health food.

Read the chapter on diary in "Eat, Drink, Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating" By Walter Willett MD.

A few points:
1. Dairy does not promote weight loss according to a few new studies recently published. The original study showing that dairy promoted weight loss was a single short term study funded by the dairy industry. A recent study by Harvard Medical School showed that drinking milk (even fat free) by children led to obesity and replacing full calorie soda with milk didn't lead to weight loss.
2. Dairy is linked to certain cancers such as prostate and ovarian. This makes sense. Milk is designed to turn calves into cows by creating rapid growth.
3. Even those of us who are not lactose intolerant have difficulty digesting dairy. It leads to all sorts of sinus and stomach problems that we attribute to other causes such as colds and allergies. I know a number of people that I have persuaded to give up dairy have reported back that they feel much much better on a daily basis than when they eat dairy and if they fall off the wagon and have dairy they have a day or two "dairy hangover."

For those of you who are not vegan I challange you to try cutting out all animal products from your diet for two weeks and see how you feel. Completely ignore the moral side of things - just see how you feel. I have made this challenge to many of my friends and co-workers and over 20 of them have taken the challenge. Over 10 of them are vegan now. Try it. Your body will thank you. I promise.

VeganBikerGrrl

The animals that are used to produce cheese and other dairy products are fed hormones to increase milk production. They become sick with grossly swollen udders and their bones break because so much calcium is leeched out in the milking process. They are treated just as badly, if not worse, than cows raised for meat.

Back to the original question, I'd make sure that you are getting your omega-3s, as someone mentioned. Use flax oil or ground flax seed in cereal or on salads.

AnthonyG

See my above references. Yes overproccessed dairy isn't too good. You have to search out the real thing. Dr Mercola published an excert from that study showing no weight loos from low fat milk. https://www.mercola.com although he takes a differents spin on it. Basically it's aying that low fat milk is no good.

I used to be dairy intolerent but access to raw dairy turned it around and now I can't live without it. It realy gives me the fat I need. I tried a very low animal food diet for a while but I felt worse.

What it might come down to is your metabolic type. See Dr Mercola's site. Carbohydrate types may be able to exist on vegan diets for a while but not a protein type.

Regards, Anthony

shaharidan

i'll never understand why people who eat meat get so upset when someone asks a vegan or vegiterian question. not one vegterian who posted here claimed moral supperiority or said anything negative about anyone who eats meat. yet the people who eat meat have to jump in and act like they did.
personally i eat meat, but usually read threads when vagan or vegeterian is in the title, because theres often some good nutritional information. and theres always people who jump in to degrade the vegiterians.

it reminds me a lot of when people learn i commute to work on a bike, so many of them become defensive and angry, and act like i'm insulting them because i choose to ride a bike. yet i've never claimed or even implied that anyone else is wrong for driving their cars to work. it's just a personal choice i've made.

i've never met a vegan or vegitarian who acted supperior to me or told me i was wrong for eating meat. yet meat eaters see a thread with vegitarian or vegan in the title and have to chime in like they've been insulted.
i just don't get it.

x43x

Ok, one more post..I swear.

Eating and drinking dairy IS NOT natural. A little ironic when the meat eaters chime in that we are omnivores and have teeth designed for eating meat so we should eat meat. Ok, that's fine. But consuming dairy isnt what nature intended so why do we do it? The human body wasnt designed to break down dairy after infancy which is why there are so many lactose intolerant people. Humans are the ONLY animal that consumes dairy after infancy, and its not even our own! Milk from animals is used to feed young because of its fat content and other nutrients that will help the young one grow. Dairy cows arent just sitting around with full utters all the time waiting to give milk. They are artificially inseminated, then once they give birth the calf is usually taken away (and used for venison) so the milk that should go to the calf can now go to us. What is natural about that?

531Aussie

Foods aren't necessarily "natural" or not. It's not like there was a blue print made a million years ago of what we should and shouldn't eat, it's a question of adaptation. Once we've adapted to a food, then I guess it could then be referred to as being "natural".

The problem with dairy and most grains is that we've only been a farming society for about 10,000 years, so we haven't fully adapted to these foods, which is why there's such a prevalence of lactose and gluten intollerance. The last I read, we've been eating meat for about 150,000 years, so we've obviously had more time to adapt.

ckleps

We aren't going to "adapt" to eating dairy in such a way that lactose intolerance goes away. Evolution only works if people with a certain gene die before they reproduce, I could be wrong, correct me if I am, but most lactose intolerant people are not dying young. Evolution among humans pretty much has disapeered.

Yoshi

You are mostly correct, except that I'm pretty sure lactose intolerance is a recessive trait (i.e. - you may be lactose intolerant, but your parents aren't). Recessive traits are harder to "phase out" due to evolution.

jennings780

Right on x43x!

VeganRider

Back a few years ago I was eating nothing but beans, seeds, nuts, fruits, vegetibles, whole grains, fish and dairy. I would say that's somewhat healthy. Someone asked me why didn't I just become vegetarian? I said ok fine. Dropped the fish and dairy. Never felt so good, then later it became a moral issue to me. That was five years ago and I will always be vegan, always. Now I escort insects from my house and never kill anything if possible. Ever see a close up view of a fruit fly? Wow, such detail, all life is so amazing and such a shame to waste.

hsg

raw, organic, vegan....

yes. getting a bit more anal everyday. some of you may think i'm joking. im not.

i also talk to my food. i thank it. i imagine it once having been given life by the sun.... i watch it "grow up and out" from seed to maturity. then i eat it.

ed073

Funny!!!

Snicklefritz

What do diabetic vegans do about insulin? Do they try to find something other than a porcine source for it?

Snicklefritz

A lot of people, myself included, choose to eat meat (sparingly in my case) because it works for us. Some people choose to be vegetarian or vegan because it works for them. To each his own. What I have a hard time with is people who feel the need to criticize others' views as "defying all common sense". There is no need for that. Dee-Vee, if you've found something that works for you, more power too you. If you disagree with someone else's choice to eat meat, don't make blanket statements such as you did here. It only discredits you in doing so.

hsg

did your transition into vegan affect your bodyweight? amount of sleep you require?