frogjuice

Okay, I now have a cadence monitor. I know what cadence is most comfortable for me to ride at (100-110). But what's the best way to use cadence info to make me a better rider? By better I mean both faster and able to ride longer distances. Ie. Do I ride as high a cadence as possible without bouncing in the saddle? Do I ride high cadence for "x" length of time, then a slower cadence? I'm not asking these specific questions per se... more HOW DO I USE CADENCE INFO TO GET FASTER OR RIDE LONGER?

waterrockets 

It's mostly maintenance data. On a long, flat ride, make sure you keep your cadence in the same zone you do when you're fresh. On a climb, let your cadence drop, but the number can tell you when you're just going too low.

For training to get faster, the only ways I can think of would be speed intervals and speedwork sprinting. So, do some 1-minute intervals at 140 rpm. On a different day, do sprints in too small of a gear and see how high you can get your cadence (I hit 187 recently). Both of these drills will help you improve stroke efficiency and suffering tolerance

Duke of Kent

Monitoring your cadence is nice; it can tell you when you're tiring, if you are no longer able to maintain your normal rate.

But it won't make you any faster. At all.

Better things to monitor, in this order:
1) Power
2) HR
3) Speed

I can spin 110 rpms in an easy gear all day. But I know that my highest power output for most time periods is at around 92-94rpm. I know that if I'm tiring at the end of a repeat, my cadence tends to slow slightly. Other than that, in my mind, cadence is not very useful.

within

Just did 6x5minutes at 50rpm on 3-5% grade. An example of strength/endurance intervals.

To answer your question, I guess ride as much as possible for now. Read up on periodization training. Then maybe get some help with structuring a plan that will stress your muscles, rest, adapt, stress, rest...building over time. cadence is used as a training event like the s/e interval. Other than maybe a few other examples, trying to get "faster, stronger, more endurance" based only on cadence is bassackwards, imho.

kudude

1 minutes at 140rpm. hmmm. don't think i'm capable of such feats.

cmh

Some training schemes have cadence specific workouts - Carmichael's program's come to mind, but I think Friel and others do as well. Check out one of their training books for workouts. The idea is that high cadence work can help your efficiency, and low cadence work is good for building leg strength. Be aware that a lot of people think that cadence specific work is no better than doing the same intervals at whatever cadence you naturally prefer.

ratebeer

1. Your ideal cadence tends to increase as your power does. If you're putting out over 323 watts at FTP, you cadence looks about right. If you're not, actively try a lower cadence to improve your efficiency.

2. Higher cadence favors reliance on your cardiovascular system. You can train your cardiovascular system by raising your cadence and decreasing torque

3. Lower cadence relies more on your muscular system. You can train your muscular system by lowering your cadence and increasing torque.

stea1thviper

as duke has already alluded to, comparing power output vs cadence can be useful. cadence alone is somewhat useless in my opinion. combined with a powermeter, you can find what your optimal cadence is. it's interesting to find that often times the cadence you are most comfortable with is not the best cadence for producing optimal power. you'll never know this without a powermeter though.

additionally, im all for heartrate monitor based workouts where they are applicable. HR monitor workouts do have several limitations however, and plotting HR vs cadence will also get you nowhere. upping cadence will naturally elevate HR, but that has nothing to do with your optimal power producing cadence.

as far as stroke efficiency, i dont believe in working on that either. there have been too many studies showing that professionals have anything but smooth strokes (ie most power in the down cycle and no attempt to get rid of "dead spots"). find your best cadence with a powermeter, and make sure you are comfortable and not bouncing around. simple, really.

*edit* then again people on these forums use the term stroke efficiency quite loosely, so they also may be talking about other things i have not covered.

waterrockets 

efficiency != smooth circles -- there is neuromuscular training going on at high cadence, teaching you how to keep your muscles synchronized better, so you don't fight yourself. Pushing against yourself is the inefficiency I'm talking about.

edzo

ok U wanna know

pick 120...pin your cadence at 120 and keep it there for 30 miles.

that is one way to train.

next, pick 100. keep it there. do not go over, do not go under. see how hard
that is ?, very hard.

now, start at 80-90, and then whip up to 140, hold that as long as you can...repeat.


there are many ways to use cadence info to beat some sense into yourself. it all translates to skill and power

asgelle

Efficiency has a well defined meaning and that isn't it. In colloquial terms, efficiency is the ratio of work performed to energy consumed. Many people improperly use the term as a measure of speed produced to energy consumed or work performed.

Spreggy

I don't understand why people say cadence is useless. Same guys who say HRMs are useless maybe.
To build muscle and tendon strength, you can ride 60 minutes at 70-85 at a comfy zone 2 HR.
To work on a more efficient pedal stroke, you can put 15 or 20 minutes of 110-120 rpm (or whatever your seat-bounce number is) pedaling into your ride once a week.
Watching your cadence on hill repeats will help you figure out what your best climbing cadence is so you can choose gears better. And as mentioned earlier it can provide clues as to why you're suddenly going so damn slow on a long ride, may mean you need to eat or just get the lead out.
To increase power on long rides by increasing your VO2 max, you can go for 110 or higher rpm, as hard as you can go (zone 5 if using a heart monitor) for 3 minutes, recover for 3 minutes, repeat three times, once per week.

<--- just a newbie who likes cadence.

rizz

I found my cadence started going up when I began doing one leg pedal drills. The two really do go hand-in-hand.

asgelle

Oooh, let me. https://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/setraining/ and https://www.midweekclub.ca/articles/coyle91.pdf

stea1thviper

oh ok misread then. i totally agree with you on that.

waterrockets 

Are you saying that working against yourself is efficient?

pedex

high cadence actually sacrifices efficiency in favor of taxing the cardio system a bit more which recovers much better than leg muscle

Spreggy

It seems these address specific training beliefs, but by no means indicates we should not use cadence as a training device. Or maybe it does lol.

waterrockets 

True, but I'm talking about training efficient form into your body with high cadence. Not riding with high cadence for efficiency.