TheJackMove

Are all the highways in Latvia downhill with strong tailwinds?

I'll give you 35 mpg in a new and efficiently running TDI if you try to drive super efficiently, but in most Euro countries driving like this will get you run off the road by a d-bag in a black mercedes going 200 kph (although I can't say I have ever been to Latvia, so I can't really speak for the drivers there).

Treefox

I used to be able to get 27 if I were really careful and drove barefoot in a 4.2L V6 Acura Legend (I believe it was EPA rated to 25). A Golf TDI ought to get vastly more.

And there are plenty of non-Smart and non-Hybrid cars out there that are better than a Golf TDI as well.

patentcad

Correct. And only from Republicans.

ElJamoquio

Yeah, just like a new Civic gets 30 MPG and a mid-eighties one gets 50.

stevesurf

For the OP, as others have said, commuting habits most likely won't change toward cycling and shops won't be busier that way; people will most likely just carpool and wind up making new friends or enemies.

However, people may opt for less costly recreation, buy bikes and spend part of their vacation doing day trips at nearby destinations.

I believe Ziemas may be correct. One metric for this is how widespread environmental education programs are in the schools. Obviously, this would have to be measured considering the small population of Scandinavia. International Institute for Industrial Environmental Economics in Lund is one of several that has degree programs like Environmental Management and Policy. It's well known that nordic countries prioritize higher education. Finland has not only been a leader in biotechnology and forestry programs, but dominates the environmental sciences.

rbart4506

It make a bit of a difference, but honestly the people who are close enough to ride to work don't feel the heat of gas prices as much as those that truly commute. The one's who drive the long distances are the ones that get hurt the most and the ones that also really don't see commuting by bike as being feasible. I think what we will see is people starting to carpool more, take public transit and getting smaller more fuel efficient vehicles.

FatguyRacer

I have a Jetta TDI and a 1000cc motorcycle. They both get about the same milage, maybe the car makes a few more MPG. I just saw a $4.08 sign for diesel this morning, I'll be on the moto quite a bit more so my wife can use the car more instead of driving the Jeep Cherokee.

I was at a team open house earlier at our sponsors bike shop and i got to chatting with the owner. He informs me that business is good. I still dont see any more bike commuters than before, but I do see a heck alot more motorcycles.

rm -rf

Umm, you do know that the TDI is the turbodiesel model, not a gas engine? Here's a user review, getting 42-47 mpg overall. One of my coworkers has one. It's nice, surprisingly fast.

supton

My TDI, in the Jetta Wagen, pulls down 46mpg consistantly. 42ish in the summer at 80mph with the A/C; more if I drive more sanely. I could probably stand to do some maintance this summer, I think there's a couple of mpg's missing somewhere.

When I bought my first new car in '00, I knew gas prices could only go up. I bought something that would get 40mpg. When I wanted a better car with more space, I went with the TDI in '04. I'll keep this one around for a while, although with diesel prices through the roof, it's almost to the point where it might be cheaper to drive the wife's 36mpg gasser Civic for the work commute. But my car typically goes 700miles between fillups, which is an advantage all of its own.

rbart4506

What are you smoking man?? Where did you get your numbers??

All I know is my Mazda3 gets about 8.8L/100km on the highway and the TDI's blow that mileage away. If Mazda offered a diesel version I would have seriously looked into it when I got my car. Most diesel's have gotten better gas mileage that gas powered vehicles for years.

So, 40-50mpg does not seem so out there...

Dumpsterlife

In my opinion this is the root of the whole problem.

supton

Yep, things are seemingly too far apart. But I'm not willing yet to move back to city life. I like the idea of my kids going to a small school. I like my lightly traveled roads. My only real problem is that I went into high technology for a career, so I wind up traveling long distances to go to work. Maybe in a couple years my priorities will change as the economics change.

krusty

You are correct. The Golf Tdi typically can run almost 1000km on a tank of fuel. My wife's 2005 Mercedes c230k gives me 6.6l/100km highway (=36mpg on a US gallon, or 41mpg on our larger Imperial gallon)

Cyclist0383

No, but I don't drive like aggressively either.

You are dead wrong about the mileage of the Golf TDI and clearly have no experience with these cars.

PapaLegba

people will buy smaller cars first.

most americans aren't in that kind of shape to tear up an 8 mile commute. and a lot of people drive further than that.

not mentioning that if you live where it gets 100 degrees... coming to work and appearing professional means taking a shower and getting changed after your ride. i've done that, but then begin to wonder why i can't just ride in my air coniditioned truck.

i commute on cool days, when it doesn't rain, and when i feel it will relieve stress, not cause it.

CdCf

Ziemas is correct. Smaller, modern diesel cars often get down below 5 L/100 km. 5 L/100 km equals 47 mpg.

My parents have a 2006 Volvo V50, and over the two first years, it has averaged 7.4 L/100 km, or 32 mpg. Most of that is a daily 8-mile commute, mixed with several trips of either 70 miles or 170 miles round trip, and a few short trips to a local store or relatives. Almost no city driving.

DataJunkie

This could quite possibly be the worst forum to pose this question in.

TRUMPHENT

Smart bike shop owners will seize the opportunity. Think traffic! If someone walks in the door, the goal will be to ring the cash register. A novice commuter can become repeat customer if handled properly.

Some things are insidious. Bicycling is being imprinted by commercials on TV. Things that have nothing directly to do with cycling are presenting bicycles. This may be just a fad of the advertising industry but, there is no reason for a bike shop to not exploit the subliminal effect it produces.

Then there was Lance. Lance Armstrong is a household name. Everyone has heard "Lance Armstrong" at least once and knows it has something to with bicycling. This probably going to benefit authorized Trek dealers the most. Lance's new venture with a commuting centric or at least friendly LBS in Austin can be leveraged by any savvy LBS owner.

So, bike shops are being presented opportunities as we speak. How they capitalize on them is their business.

PapaLegba

the viability of small block diesel cars in former east bloc countries?

european commuting and you?

filling your frame with sand for greater cornering stability?

Az B

Absolutely true. Money is always a factor, but to assume that people of other cultures are as crass and ignorant as our own is way off base. Many Europeans that could drive larger cars don't because of a sense of efficiency. I know the German ambassador here in the US and he has to drive a lot for his job. He makes a lot of money and has a lot of prestige, but he drives a VW Golf TDI. 50+ mpg. You can bet your ass that the American ambassador in Germany drives an Escalade.

Americans see the car as an extension of how they want other people to see them. A status symbol in most cases. As a massive societal norm, this is unique. Most people in other societies see the car for what it is... transportation.

Az

PapaLegba

when you drive almost 30,000 miles a year, a wheezy euro sh!box that leaves you sore and cranky and is a speck on highways dotted with mastodons and cannot carry stuff is also a consideration.

for all the driving i do, a car needs to big enough to carry me, my droogs, and our bikes. fast enough that i'm not being run over by some dumbass in an escalade, and cushy enough that i'm not throwing clots after a 800 mile drive.

europeans don't do that in their dinky cars. they do that in their mercedes, bimmers, and range rovers.

palesaint

Scanned quickly, but didn't notice the point above:

An article I read said that, while oil may be at just about its highest level ever (even factoring in inflation), another factor on how much the price hurts the consumer is how much they have to work for a gallon of gas.

"In 1980, the average American had to work 105 minutes to buy enough gas to drive the average car 100 miles, according to Beth Ann Bovino, a senior economist at Standard and Poor's. Now, the average American needs to work only 53 minutes, thanks to better fuel efficiency and higher wages. "

If gas hits $5 a gallon, that's still approximately 84 minutes versus 105 minutes in 1980. Somehow we managed back then to still drive everywhere. Not much will change, methinks.

Cyclist0383

Haven't spent much time in Europe, have you?

sherbornpeddler

The pseessimism that Americans will change is supportable. Optomistically, Boomers are moving back to cities, bike paths and rails to trails are gaining momentum. Hobby and race dudes drive awareness. Tour de France to Tour of California help like Nascar and Indy help cars.

I find more bicyclists on the roads. Bike manufacturers and bike shops right now feed off us fanatics; bikes require expertise to tune, expensive parts and spandex. When we see comfort bike popularity grow several years in a row and low maintenance bikes like Europe and Asia with fenders, chain guards, generators and built in locks then we'll see the conservative urban majority impact.

In the US we had big advantages over Europe with new cities and towns and manufacturing.....100 years ago. Boomer urban and retirement migration and new, eco-friendly developments with biking proximity services will help but it won't be easy. Our biggest obstacle is American "want it now, fast food" culture where long term strategic planning is measured in months and elections, not multiple decades. I am optimistic global business and internet (like this forum) speed learning and cultural evolution.

supton

Have you driven a European car, or are you basing all imports upon initial impressions of some low-end Asian car? My 46mpg car can hit 100mph (ECU limit is at 125) easily, will cruise at 80mph with the a/c on and a full load in the car until a pee break (albeit not at 46mpg--probably more like 38-40), and a leather interiour.

Domestic crapboxes have no interest for me.