mr handy

I know you guys and galls live for these threads, so let me know what you think.
I feel like I have the saddle height about right, but I'm thinking I could use a shorter stem.

Let me know what you think...

ridethecliche

Actually, it looks pretty good to me!

Gluteus

Cool hat

jonestr

Hard to say

you are not dropping your heel at the 6 oclock position.

You should probably go to a fitter as this will not be very productive in comparison.

martinrjensen

You are supposed to drop you heal at full stroke? I didn't know that. it looks like the leg angle (at full stroke) is at least 15 degrees or so which is good. Also your top picture is a nice square angle. At least it looks like it. Assuming that I took a straight edge and placed it between your eyes and your hub and it looks like it intersects your handle bars, maybe a little behind it? Is that correct? When you have your hands on the hoods and you look down at your hub, can you see it? Is it in front of the handle bars? In back of? If your handlebars appear in front of your stem, your stem is probably short enough, if not too short, but reach can change over time. Fit wise, I think you want to start with a line real close to having the hub hidden by your handle bars. That determines your stem length and it's pretty much independant of saddle position, meaning that you set saddle position first, then adjust the stem as above. Note these are all starting places and can vary but ya gotta start somewhere. Going to a fitter? Can't hurt, but not really cheap. Do you race? if so I think it would be a good idea, if not, and you are fairly comfortable with no pain riding , there is a ton of fitting info on the web. Be sure to read between the lines.

MONGO!

Saddle up an inch and a 10mm shorter stem

mr handy

Thanks for all the help.
I don't race currently. I just swapped saddles for a toupe, so I was fiddling with the position, and thought I would take a few picks to get a better idea of how my position looked, than decided to post them to see what others thought.

I just got back from a 25 mile ride, and the saddle feels like it could go up a touch, I'll give it another ride like this and if it still feels low I'll raise it 5mm and see how it feels...
I have always felt a little stretched out with the 100mm stem, so I think I will try to find a 90mm stem and give it a try.

Thanks all, keep the advise coming if you get any.
I may go for a fitting before the summer, but money don't grow on trees.

Lizzylou

Yank down on the shorts... you've got an inch of pasty skin sticking out.

Ok, I'm going to go away now since i have nothing actually productive to say.

mr handy

I have 3 pairs of these bibs, and for some reason this pair is just a bit shorter...

ridethecliche

I was going to say that I prefer my saddle a touch higher. Mark you seatpost where it is right now (electrical tape where it contacts the seattube/whatever) and measure the SADDLE: BB before you make any changes. Raise your saddle till your hips start to rock and then lower it 3mm. If this doesn't work, then lower it in increments of 2mm till you get more comfortable.

Conversely, You could raise your saddle by 5mm every 200 miles until your hips rock, and then lower it by 3mm.

MONGO!

With those adjustments you should be right on the money.

Kai Winters

Generally the foot should be level with the ground at the 12/6 crank arm position and there should be a 12-15 degree to the knee. But this may or may not be optimal for you or all riders. There is so much more to being "fitted" to a bike.
I don't like to give advice based on a static photo of a person that is using a wall for balance. It looks like you are leaning to the left, using the wall for support a bit heavily, in photos 1 and 2 and that affects your position...your balance is towards the wall rather than relaxed on the bike.
A better way to use photos, if they must be used, is to put the bike on a trainer, ride the bike for 10-15 minutes to warm up and get in position...then take photos of yourself with hands on the flats...top position for seated climbing...on the hoods and in the drops. Legs should be in the 12/6 and 3/9 positions in all hand positions. This gives a lot more to work with if you want better advice using an online forum.
In general good fore/aft upper body position means when you are in the drops and looking down at your handlebar flats they should obscure the front hub/axle (the handlebar flats are directly over the axle)...if the bars are in front or behind the hub you may need adjustments.
Again these are generalities and should be combined with many more measurements as well as watching the individual ride to see how his/her body moves with pedaling and positions. Our bodies all work differently and have varied faults that generalities can not help.
Good luck and keep us informed.

Bontrager

You could probably temporarily simulate a 1 cm shorter stem by messing with: bar angle, brifter location, stem flippage, moving steerer spacers. Since you like taking pictures why not throw your camera on a tripod and mess with the above to effectively move your hand position by -1cm and see how it feels?

I replaced my regular, cushy saddle with a Toupe and I had to rase my seatpost almost 1 cm and very slightly backwards to feel like I was in the same position.

jonestr

When I do fits I usually allow for a the foot to drop a little below level to the ground when the rider's knee is not quite fully extended. How much you allow for drop of the heel will depend on the the type of saddle used as you will want to get near full leg extension when on the back of the saddle, which is often higher than the cup, so you can really get some good power from your buttocks and hamstrings on climbs.

If you are not dropping your heel much through your pedal stroke you may be running to high of a saddle and you will not be able to ankle properly when pedaling. When you are riding casually or at really high cadences it is hard or unnecessary to drop your heal, but on hard sustained efforts you probably should be or you want be engaging your calves much and wont be utilizing your body to its full potential.

I know that money doesent grow on trees, but getting a good fit will do wonders for your cycling. I dropped my saddle nearly 2" after my first fit and started using my calves in my pedaling stroke, which allowed me to develop a lot more power on the flats, and eventually made my climbing better than ever.

I guess you might put it this way. You would probably not drop 1k$ on a suit without getting it fit so why do it on a bicycle. I am not a fitting expert, but I did do fits for my teammates and at the shop I worked at and it made a big difference for a lot of riders.

If you can afford a new stem you are probably only a few bucks away from getting a good fit. Ask around and find someone good and not just someone who plugs #s into a fit kit and doesent pay attention to cleat adjustment or who doesent take the time to watch you ride or let you warm up first.

crydee

Maybe the saddle up a half an inch not a whole inch I would say. Also, shorter stem. It doesn't even look like you get much drop from the hoods to the drops because you can't get a bend in your elbow because of how stretched out you are.

mr handy

Thanks for all the suggestions.
So sense many of you suggest getting fitted (which I agree with) can anyone suggest a good place to get a fitting In the tampa area? What should I be getting in a fitting? and what the going rate?

MONGO!

Your position looks pretty good already, tweak the saddle up, put a shorter stem on and see how you feel then.

OCRider2000

Handy,

how long have you been riding? Fit and flexibility changes over time as well as position preferences. Do you prefer to cruise with you hands over the levers like in your pics? Have your tried cruising with your hands just shy of the hoods. Whatever your preference is here will play a role in stem length selection. With your hands over the levers you do look a tad long and you do state you feel long. Have you experimented with cruising with your hands at the hoods? This alone will help shorten up your reach. It's all personal preference so if you prefer cruising with your hands over the levers and your feel long then a shorter stem might be in order. This is the only feedback one can really give based on what you are telling us and looking at your pics. As far as seat height you need to experiment. Eventually you will find your sweet spot where you are most efficient.

Except for the possible reach issue you look like you are int he ballpark based on your pics. The best way for you to fine tune your fit is to experiment on your own. Some people like to drop their heal and some folks like to keep their heel up. Its all personal preference. Not a big fan of fitters the personal who knows your body and preferences the best is you. I don't think its possible to make micro fit adjustment reccomendations based on pics alone.

umd

For what it's worth, I generally ride with my toes down... after reading this thread, today at lunch I had to ride to an appointment and tried to make an effort to ride heel down. Although it was tiring and my ankles/calves are now sore because I'm not used to it, I was able to fairly easily generate about 10% more power than otherwise. I didn't really have to adjust my position, just make an effort to do it; if I let my mind wander my toes dropped again It felt like I had a little extra push at the bottom of each stroke.

mr handy

I tend to ride with toe down, so I will have to work on that.

I also find that I ride with my hands backed off the hoods a bit, though I feel that it is in order to not be so stretched out.

So at this point the plan is a shorter stem and dial in the seat height.

I have no major complaints, so in the event that I start having issues that I cannot solve or I decide to start racing, I think I will keep an eye out for a fitting opportunity but not dwell on it either.

jonestr

I am honestly surprised that you are a toe down rider as you seem to be an elder statesman around here.

Good luck getting used to dropping your heal. It really made a world of difference for me in staying with fast crits, flat road races, and TTs as before I would just try and survive between hills.

jonestr

I would try contacting a coach in your area. USAC should have a list of registered ones. I think a lot of a good fit is in the cleats and adjusting your knee relative to your pedal spindle so you can maximize your power development and minimize repetitive use injuries. Upper body positioning is a little more subjective as it depends on how much weight you are willing to let you core bear. If you want to race they will get you low in the drops to the point your knees almost hit your chest. You will probably need to do some core work to hold an aggressive position like this.

Expect to pay around $100 for this, but that can vary widely.

Make sure you wear your cycling clothes and are warmed up going into the fit.

jonestr

Here is a link for florida based coaches

https://www.usacycling.org/coaches/se...e=FL&lastname=

pacificaslim

Hmm...I thought this ankle down business was old school. I thought the idea was 20 degrees toe down at 12 o'clock, driving the ankle down to flat to ten degrees ankle down at 3 o'clock so that you're using the much larger hamstring muscles, and then back to 20 degree toe-down from 6 o'clock on up to keep your foot out of the way on the upstroke (Lemond says act like you're scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe at the bottom of the stroke).



https://www.bicycling.com/article/1,6...5647-1,00.html

jonestr

I dont see any contradictory info to what has been presented. If you are pedaling toe down then you need to correct this by dropping your heal to get the scraping motion. One of my points above is that I noted that you may need to change how flat you get your foot at 12 o'clock depending on your saddle preference. For instance I ride a Concor which has a high tail so I set up so that I drop my heel slightly below a plane parallel to the ground through the pedal axle so that my foot is parallel to the ground when I am climbing on the back of the saddle which is higher than the cup.