deadprez012

Went out for a longer ride with a buddy today (~60km) and I have some questions now that we're back. He's used to road bikes, but never rode with someone else, and I am totally new to group signals & drafting.

To get maximum benefit from a draft you have to be in the wide part of the wake, so that's about a foot from the leader's rear wheel. Are there any common courtesy rules for drafting in groups? With a friend, you can get away with a little more, but what should I know for a real group ride?

And then, in motorcycling, riders use specific signals for different actions (slow down, speed up, lead, follow, braking, cop, pothole, etc) so are there some of these for cycling? I know the standard turn signal arm-straight-out business, and stop is showing a palm near your hip...but what else should I know?

Particularly, how do you typically signal to change lead?

Lots of questions, but I'd rather learn here than by mucking it up on an otherwise good ride later.

Blackdays

Just rotate out once you're done taking your pull.

MegaTom

About drafting: Don't do it unless you are invited, few things are more annoying, and sometimes scary, than some random person that just decides to suck your wheel. Once you are drafting someone, mind your wheel (i.e. don't overlap your front wheel with the rear wheel in front of you) and keep an eye up the road for any potential hazards or obstacles that could cause the guy in front of you to brake or change direction. If someone is drafting you, keep a consistent speed.

Other than the usual hand signals for turning, slowing & stopping, I don't know of any standards. Common sense generally prevails when one wants to signal other things such as hazards and the like. A wave of the elbow is usually accepted as a sign that the lead rider is going to pull off and for the 2nd rider in line to take the lead.

carpediemracing 

I prefer verbal "pointing" for more than 2-3 rider groups. I'd rather have both my hands on the bars if I'm following wheels, and I don't want to point if I don't have to.

Wiggle elbow to pull off the front. I usually wiggle the side I want the rider behind to go through, i.e. if I'm pulling off to the left, I wiggle right elbow.

Point at stuff. I wave my hand at stuff if it's broad (sand, lots of glass, etc). Think of a Jedi waving his hand at the stuff.

You can create your own signals too.

I click the smaller lever (Ergo) to indicate a stop or as a way to indicate I'm there. Used to do it with the brake levers themselves, but they don't have quite the "clack" they used to have.

It's probably a good thing to put this stuff in one place. I never thought of it as "something to know".

cdr

ptle

If you're drafting, and aren't good at it, don't get too close to the person ahead of you. Also, if the person ahead of you isn't good at riding in a pack, don't get to close to them. It also really annoys people if you're constantly speeding up and slowing down, even worse if you're using your brakes as a result of poor group riding skills.

I use my arms to signal a turn or stop. I also something shout, left turn, car up, car back, etc. When standing, I try to make a smooth motion in case the guy behind me is riding too close to my wheel. Which reminds me, if you're drafting, draft a bit to the left or right of the front wheel. That way if the guy is about to stand, you won't touch wheels with him.

When I'm pulling, I'll check over my shoulder, pull off, and flick my elbow.

I'll also point out potholes, debris, roadkill, etc. with my finger or hands.

A lot of group riding skills comes from experience. You'll pick it up once you start riding with people and won't think anything of it.

ricohman

As a long time motorcyclist, I am confused to what signals you are talking about?
Why would you ride down the highway in a group anyway? Sounds like the making of an accident.
I just got back from a trip to Alaska and the Beaufort Sea on my bike. We ran the Dalton strung out as far as 500m.
On a paved road we usually ride 100m apart.

rm -rf

Signaling a lead change has a lot of variations around here. I've seen pointing, butt slapping, elbow wiggling, and just surging ahead a few feet, then pulling off to the side.

Some groups use a hand held palm out behind the butt to signal slowing down or a stop ahead. I like the arm held downward with fingers open and palm facing back.

Point out road hazards on the side that you are passing. So use your right hand if passing to the left of the hazard. We'll yell out "hole!" (and point if possible) if it's a tire eating size hole.


Always assume there's someone right behind you. Do a slow drift to move left or right, don't swerve. Use a smooth, progressive braking if you have to slow. If there's no time to gradually slow down, call out "Stopping" or "Slowing"

On one ride, we had a guy pointing in the air periodically. Nobody knew what it was for, and it turned out to be "car up". He was used to riding with a deaf rider and they had extra signals. I don't know why he used it on this ride.

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Leading the group:

I was used to solo riding fairly close to the white line. But leading a group, it's better to stay farther in the lane, so others can get in your draft easily, and you also won't be swerving out around debris as much.

The leader also needs to be looking farther up the road, to smoothly move the group around holes and bad pavement, instead of swerving over at the last second. A solo rider can miss a hole by a few inches, but riders back in a group won't see it in time, so steer well away from it.

Chef151

Great post, rm.

I just did my first group ride this week and although it seems a bit intimidating and confusing at first, halfway through the ride I had most of the signals and lingo figured out. If you are unsure about something, just ask. Better to show a little inexperience than to have to apologize later for a wrong move that could have a bad end result for not only you, but the rest of the group as well.

deadprez012

Just to clarify, on the backroads we used to ride on (our fast weekend runs with 4 or 5 guys that knew each other well plus the occasional new guy) we would drop a boot to either side to indicate something slick on or near the road, tight shoulders, crags, and potholes. We tapped brake levers to signal stops, cars ahead, and anything worth seeing. In our group, a butt off the saddle meant a rest stop needed soon. Passing to lead was indicated with a wave of the hand over the relevant shoulder.

And then, the typical track stuff: tapping the lid meant follow or stop doing dumb sh*t, shifting in the saddle and poking out a knee (which we did early on normal roads) meant tight corner coming, showing a palm near the thigh was back off, tapping the thigh was ride tighter.

We never road in a pack, but occasionally we did do the lane stagger (guy on the right, guy 1 sec behind on the left, guy 1 sec behind on the right, etc) and the lead guy signaled the good twisties on the way. We rode tight to watch lines, to teach new guys, and to learn from each other. We were sport cyclists, absolutely, but we weren't a club...we were just the local fast guys.

BasicJim

Our club uses the same signals as most. Elbow wiggle for coming off the lead. Palm open and down for slowing or stopping. Pointing at a hole (and preferably yelling "HOLE!!"). We do verbals as often as possible.

One other point of courtesy and safety in a draft... Don't cross wheels with the rider in front of you. You'd just be asking for him to run into your front wheel, then both of you go down.

I guess the only other advice is try to hold your line as much as possible.

Good thread here... https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...to-yell-at-you.

Jim

deadprez012

Good stuff, as always, and to cdr, that would actually be a really good thing. Guys like myself would find that useful, just like the Intro to the 41 (gross paraphrasing of course) sticky and the bits about racing, etc etc.

There are always little things that I'll pick up riding, but if I'm already wasting hours of sleeping time here, I might as well learn something!

roccobike

+1 Good Post
WHen riding with a group for the first time, stay in the back and learn their set of signals.
Never ride directly behind the rear wheel in front of you, always stay about 6 inches to the right of left so that you have an escape route in case of a panic stop.
When taking a drink from your water bottle, hold it out to your side briefly so that the bikes behind you can see you have a bottle out and give you a little extra room.
When leading a group, be a leader and make sure the group is with you. Don't show how powerful you are and how you can drop the entire group. As the leader you are responsible for pulling the group, setting the pace and calling out hazards. You should expect help from your #2 to navigate and call out turns if the ride has a cue sheet.

deadprez012

What is a cue sheet? That like a verbal description of a map?

umd

Other signals to watch out for are motoning to move over (e.g. passing another rider). Usually some variation of pointing at the obstruction and then sweeping the hand across the back in the direction to move.

Also signaling a change in rotation direction, or to start rotating, holding a finger up in the air and circling it in the direction to rotate.

umd

It's like the list of streets and turns when you use google maps to get directions...

deadprez012

And, of course, another testament to ignorance, why would you do this? And by direction you mean the side on which the leader moves back & next guy comes up or something else entirely?

umd

Yes. You would do this if you want the group to change the direction because of the wind. Otherwise it can be difficult to just spontaneously change the direction. You would also use it if the group wasn't rotating and you wanted them to.