I've got a few friends, stronger riders than I am, that I ride with and feel comfortable sitting on their wheel while working just over/under my LT during the ride. I can "relax" (in an oxygen-debt kind of way,) find a steady cadence and keep the gap between wheels fairly consistent without the speed up/slow down/speed up/slow down accordion-effect. When I'm with people I know and trust I can (or at least I try very, very hard) be a non-nuisance in the paceline and considering that I keep getting asked back I'd venture to guess that I'm doing okay.

But when I go to rallies I wind up either a nervous wreck on a stranger's wheel, alone in no-mans land somewhere between the faster group at the front and the slower group behind, or some combination both.

Case in point: two weeks ago I was riding hard with a group, none of whom I knew. I was not being a good paceline citizen - I found it really difficult not to overreact to every inconsistency ahead of me. My pedaling was a mess, I feathered the brakes when I really didn't need to, I wasn't holding a very good line. Really I was annoying. But not knowing the people in front of me I couldn't relax. A rider in front of me would stand suddenly, the person behind them would brake, then I'd brake etc. Eventually I fell off the back so that I could relax and not be 'that girl' but then I was in between groups and did the last half of the ride all alone. Not bad when I'm looking for a solo ride but that day I'd wanted at least a few people with which to share the load.

Am I just supposed to assume that since I'm riding with a relatively fast group everyone knows what they're doing? Because I don't think that's the case. Or am I wrong? I'm beginning to wonder if this is why I know a lot of people who won't ride t-shirt rallies? What's the alternative?

don't know how much i can help..but i would never really "trust" a wheel of a stranger. you can still keep a reasonable distance and get a benefit of a draft. you should be able to judge some of the riders abilities fairly quick. if a rider brakes in front of you, you always have room to roll up along side them while preparing for them to possibly move over on you. i guess it just takes practice in those situations. don't force yourself into something you are not comfortable with though.

Having recently (and largely unsuccessfully) tried to hook up with a fast ride myself, I can assure you that one's presence in a paceline does not guarantee that he or she knows what they are doing. Sigh.

if i don't trust the wheel in front of me, i either find one i do trust, take point, or echelon enough that sudden braking in front of me would be ok. don't worry about people being squirrley behind you.

It's natural to have doubts about a group you have not been riding with. When I ride with someone I trust, with a group I know, I ride at about 6" off their wheel. When I'm behind someone I don't trust I ride at about 2 to 3 feet off their wheel. Sometimes I allow more than 6" if I'm six or more bikes back from the leader and the yo-yo effect of the paceline is pronounced. I'll allow more space so I can smooth it out for the folks behind me. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

Being a larger rider, I almost always have to ride off to the side a bit (echelon myself) so if they move suddenly, my momentum doesn't crash me into them.

That said, you need to do some drills involving bumping, over-lapping & touching your front wheel, leaning, etc... to make yourself more comfortable on the bike. Do this, and you'll become more comfortable around others you don't know.

In a race, you are often surrounded by lots of wheels ridden by people you do not know or trust. You'll probably never trust many of them, so you have to look out for yourself. The same goes for group rides. If you're feeling a little squirrely, then back off a little. It's better to open a gap or overlap a wheel a little than use the brakes, just know where you're going. Finally, I would take more rides with the people you trust so you can get to the point where you are relaxed, enjoying the scenery, and not paying attention to the wheel in front of you. It might take a while, but once you get there, it will become second nature, and unfamiliar groups will be less anxious. Best of luck.

if I don't trust the wheel in front of my, which is often, I find another.

Work on the fitness so you can ride with the faster more experienced riders. Not an easy answer but it will solve most of your issues

I think its just your comfort level. When you get in a car with a friend, you dont worry about them driving, but when you get in a cab, dont you wonder what the person is going to drive like? You know how your "normal" group rides and have a strong sense that they all know what they are doing, therefore you feel comfortable and can relax.
Next time you ride with the other group...try and spot some familiar faces to ride behind/next to/in front of...you'll at least feel more comfortable around them. Eventually, you'll get used to more people in the group.... Good luck...

At 1 m distance you can still have some drafting and have a safety margin.

Some wheels are better to follow than others. Look for people who are smooth, aren't wearing damaged clothing, and appear to know what they're doing, then try to work your way on to their wheel.

That said, ultimately you can't trust anyone for your safety, and you have to be responsible for yourself. Keep your eyes up the road, looking past the hips of the rider in front of you, with their wheel in your peripheral vision. This allows you to see what's developing and prepare for it.

If your vision is locked onto the wheel in front, it's too late to react when you become aware of a problem.

I think this is reasonable advise, although it might be misiinterpreted.

Overlapping wheels is not a cardinal sin, as long as you know what you're doing, give some room laterally, and are prepared to deal with the wheel in front of you moving sideways without getting hooked.

Carelessly overlapping wheels is a very bad idea.

I don't draft strangers on a charity ride, period. If I meet and get to know someone a little, I may trade pulls with them for a while. I would never get in a line with strangers on a century, never!

I don't go to a ride thinking I need to draft to finish it. If I don't think I can do the whole thing solo, I won't bother. BTW, I'm used to getting dropped by friends so I'm o.k. with solo riding.

I know there are people who wheelsuck the whole ride and then claim they did the ride in xx time.

she's talking about group rides not charity events. the point of the group ride is to draft and take pulls then draft some more.

I don't trust any wheel that I am on, even those of riders that I know are very experienced, good riders. Anything can happen so I always ride with the idea that it will, leaving my self an out in case the rider in front brakes or swerves. That being said, I have no problem sitting in on even the squirreliest of riders, again, I just make sure that i won't run up his wheel no matter what he does.

She said rallies, and she said she didn't know anyone. Even at a club ride where everyone is in my club I stay away from people I don't know.
If you must draft strangers it's probably better to sit in with 1 or 2 instead of a larger group.

This sounds like excellent advise, thank you. I wonder which of my poor friends I'll hit up for help with these...

I'm pretty good when I'm on group rides as I'm usually able to find some riders I know. It's charity rides that are driving me nuts, especially now that it's getting hot, but your points still apply. In the spring it seemed easier to find small pockets of good riders to hang with but the last month or so I'm finding a big cluster of unpredictability. Yesterday I asked a friend why this was and his answer was, "t-shirt rallies are dangerous and it's racing season." Oh. Then he told me to try a club ride that leaves before the larger group. From the sound of it I'll likely get shelled in the first few miles but that's okay, I know the route and when I find myself alone I'll hoof it to a shortcut. If I'm lucky the group will intercept me and I'll get another chance or two to hang on.

(haha)
I've also found that staring at the wheel in front of me has some sort of hypnotizing effect which makes reacting to a problem next to impossible.

These help a lot. My college team does a training session on a grass field and has practicies wheel touching , picking up waterbottles off the ground while moving, bike sumo (2 people drag race to a set of narrow cones while bumping), taking legwarmers off while riding, and traveling up the middle of a narrow double paceline.

simple solution is to not do charity rides. most of the people on charity rides don't know the first thing about riding in groups.

The damaged clothing comment actually was serious. It probably has less application to group rides, than to racing, but its stock advise for sizing up a race pack.

Most people only have so many team kits, and teams only place clothing orders every so often.

Guys who crash a lot will go through kits faster than they can reorder, so when you're racing with people you don't know, one thing to look for is torn clothing.

Being able to recover from overlapping wheels is a very valuable skill. No one can do it 100% of the time (See Lance, Levi, Tour of California) But if you've practiced it, you have a much better chance of pulling it off.

Yeah, I think the biggest problem when you touch your front wheel is the panic factor and in our minds somewhere we have "If you touch, you're going down" mentality. Just 'cause you touch, you don't have to go down. I've done it several times over the years, thankfully never going down from it. Nerve wracking, though. mg:

A few weeks ago the person directly in front of me suddenly slowed and turned right, onto a road that used to be a construction detour but recently has become impassable. The rest of us were going straight. I saw the two people in front of him go straight. I knew the detour was now a mud pit. I just didn't know HE didn't know that. It caught me off guard - I should have been more cautious going through the ever-changing maze of highway construction - but somehow I got a foot unclipped and managed to slide with my foot and pedal down. The bike was totally fine and aside from a gnarly bruise on my arm, I wasn't hurt at all. (I still can't figure out what the bruise was from. Maybe the saddle?) I was about 6" off his wheel when he turned - could I have avoided going down altogether?