illusiumd

I was looking for a tough road wheelset that could support my 240lbs and a guy at the local LBS gave me a quote:

White Industries T11 Black Hubset 36H Rear / 28H Front Laced to Velocity A23 700C Black Machined Sidewall Wheels.

Anyone had any experience with this combo?

I was leaning toward Shimano 105 / 36H front and rear - laced to Mavic A719.

I'm a newb when it comes to this stuff, any help appreciated!

BoSoxYacht

The White Industries hubs are great, but those are some flimsy hoops. I'd go with Hed C2 or Pacenti SL23 hoops. If your budget is tight, Kinlin xc279 is a nice alternative.

rm -rf

Get the silver version. It's a little cheaper, and the polished aluminum is really shiny and looks great. Once a year or so, I get out the auto paint polishing wax, and shine them up.

These hubs are supposed to be really strong, and they are easily serviceable.

I've broken two non-drive-side spokes, after about 10,000 miles. Both broke at the top of the threads. But with 28 spokes on the rear wheel, I rode it home each time with no problems. The tension on my non-drive-side spokes is quite low, so they flex more than a spoke with higher tension. Talk to your builder about this; with different spokes, this might not be a big problem for you.

RollCNY

I own A23's with Record 32 hole hubs, and they are nice, but not super stiff feeling. If you want a Clyde wheel set, I have been fairly impresses with my Sun Ringle CR18 36 spoke build, and they were dirt cheap and built up great.

But I don't know your weight or budget targets.

RollCNY

That wheel looks sad, just laying there all alone.

dwmckee

The Mavic A719s are tough and I like the Velocity Dyads too. I ride both. We have Dyads on our tandem and tour with over 500 pounds on 2 wheels. going to 36 spokes is a good idea too. Go to peterwhitecycles.com for a great education on rims and pay extra attention to rims recommended for tandems. There are a lot of exotic rims out there that are very light and fairly strong for their weight, but many of those are past their practical limits when you put your weight on them. I have hit a full brick at 30 MPH on my dyads and had double punctures on both tires but no rim damage. That scared the piss out of me and made me appreciate that it is really nice to have a wide safety margin on things as important as wheels. Those light things people ride are great most of the time but when you do finally hit the unexpected pothole the heaver old standby rims may save you from a collapsed wheel and a nasty face plant on asphalt.

rpenmanparker 

How sturdy is sturdy enough? Or do you just keep piling on the weight until you can't find any place to add more? How do you know when to stop beefing up the wheels?

bikemig 

The velocity A23s are not flimsy. They're very good rims. I use them laced onto shimano 105 hubs. They hold up very well for all sorts of road conditions.

The Mavic A719s are both stronger and heavier. I have a set laced onto to Deore XT hubs; they make a fine and very strong wheelset.

WhyFi

I would add H+Son Archetypes to the list - I have both them and A23s and much prefer the H+.

valleycyclist

The wheels you mentioned should be okay. I like the Velocity Synergy more than the A23 for heavier duty wheels. The Dyad, as already mentioned is another good choice. Why not just go with 32f/36r spokes instead of 28f/36r? If you want a more durable front hub, the White Industries MI5 is a good one. It has a steel axle instead of the aluminum one on the T11 front hub, and the flange spacing is slightly wider.

dwmckee

I guess that is something everyone really has to answer for themselves and their particular needs. My answer surely is not going to be yours (the eternal source of BF debate). I am older now and do not care about out sprinting anyone and my bones have become brittle to the point that falls hurt way more than when I was 20. To me a couple hundred extra grams to have bomb proof worry free wheels is a god tradeoff. A lot of folks agree with me as the enduring popularity of dyad and 719s can attest but there are a lot of 140 pound riders buying carbon wheels etc too. You just have to hear other opinions and make your own decision that hopefully is right for your speed, risk comfort and pain threshold.

One of our local shops has a collection of busted wheels hanging from the ceiling here as proof that wheels do collapse and sometimes painfully. I hope to never have one of mine hanging there. I also do not care if someone else is more worried about weight than speed.

A velocity dyad rim weighs 480 grams. You cannot get an aluminum rim much under 400 grams. 80 grams a rim is not much of a pile on the weight penalty for the OP that weighs 240 pounds. Especially to have one of the strongest and time proven rims available.

snidely

OP, check out Boyd Altamont.

cafzali

+1 I have a set of custom-built wheels with a WI hub and love them. But it's not the hub that makes them a good set. Rather it's the rim and spokes and their suitability to my purpose. That's much more important than the hub. You just want a durable hub that won't be a pain to maintain when that time comes, but there are lots of good alternatives there.

illusiumd

I agree completely. Thanks so much everyone for chiming in on this. Is it strange to put 28 tires on this rim? Everything I've seen shows people stick 23 tires on A23s. What's the max width for tires on A23s?

SirHustlerEsq

Why? I ask becuase I'm building CX wheels next weekend.

WhyFi

I didn't have any problems building up either (well, no problems due to the rims, at least), but I've generally seen more complaints/critiques from A23 builds than the Archs. I think that the fit and finish is better - they just feel like a higher quality product. I also like the rim profile much better - the flat surfaces and rounded corners of the A23 look more clunky and dated next to the Archetypes.

BoSoxYacht

What hoops did you go with?

Last fall I built some wheels for a former NFL linebacker that weighs 260lbs. I chose T11 WI hubs, DB 14/15 DT spokes and brass nipples, and Hed C2 hoops. He loves the wheels, and when I checked them last month they were still nearly perfect.

If I needed another wheelset, I'd choose the same components without a doubt.

dwmckee

I'd go at least 25s and probably 28s but get folding bead tires which are quite a bit lighter to offset the rim weight a bit. 23s are for skinny guys or for big guys that do not mind a lot of flats!

bigfred 

The WI hubs are very nice. But, as others have already stated, they are somewhat jewelery with regard to wheel durability.

The A23s are a fine rim. But, they wouldn't come to mind as a "clyde" rim, unless said clyde was looking for a "climbing" wheel. Which really wouldn't make sense.

Do you have any notion of what sort of rim weight you're willing to consider? And, can you place a 1 to 10 value on how durable you would like these to be versus light?

Leaning toward the "durable" end of equation, I would look at DT Swiss 585s (although they are only available in 32 hole) or Velocity Deep Vs. Both of which weigh in the region of 560-565 grams. The DTs are listed as heavier than that, but, several people including myself have found them to actually be a bit lighter than the Deep Vs, which run heavy compared to their listed weight. Both of these are traditional width rims and will accept 28mm tires without concern.

Lighter, but not silly light and still with a reputation for reasonable durability would be HED Belgium C2s and Pacenti SL 23s. Both of these are slightly wider, like the A23, at around 23mm and will also accept 28mm tires without concern but will provide a slightly wider profile to that tire.

If I were looking for a realiable set of everyday, all weather, training wheels, that are going to accumulate high mileage and built on a reasonable budget, I would choose the DT 585s or Velocity Deep Vs, paired with a Shimano 105 or Ultegra hub (I have a personal preference for steel freehubs), laced with double butted spokes and brass nipples.

If I were shopping for something with some curb appeal to it and was willing to increase the budget, I would go with the Pacenti or HED rims, paired to WI or more likely Chris King hubs, laced with shallow aero spoke like CX Rays and either brass nipples if I was intending to use them regularly or alloy if they were going to be more of a nice day/event/race wheel.

It's no coincidence that I own a 36 spoke Deep V rear and a set of 32 spoke 585s, both laced to Ultegra hubs with brass nipples. The 585s have double butted spoke everywhere. The Deep Vs have straight gauge on the drive side and DB everywhere else. I use both as super durable training wheels. But, I'm in this for fitness and don't race, except for town limit signs and against my mates in the occassional Gran Fondo. For reference, I'm 6'5" and about 250lbs.

bigfred 

You could put 29'er mtb tires on an A23 if you wanted to and as long as you respect their realative pressure limits. Any 23-32mm road tire is going to be fine. I concur with those who are suggesting a minimum of 25mm to you and folding (kevlar) beads. I run 28mm front and back on one bike and 25/28 front/back on another bike who's fork won't accept a 28. Amongst the clydes Continental GP 4000s, GP 4 Seasons and the various Gatorskin iterations are popular. As well as Michelin Pro 4 Endurance (their 25s run big, 27'ish) and a few others. Depending on what riding characteristics you're looking for and how much puncture protection you're looking for there are a whole bunch of other tires from the likes of Challenge and Compass that could be considered.

Jiggle

Yeah, but with 36 spokes, the loads are going to be distributed evenly. 36 spokes on a modern wheel gives a huge safety factor for a 240 lb rider, assuming the builder uses double butted spokes.

BoSoxYacht

True, but it doesn't change the fact that the A23 is a bit flimsy, and there are other hoops that would work better.

A few comments have been made about the WI hubs being "jewelry like". Yes they are beautiful, but they are also very strong, and easy to maintain. The freehub body is made of titanium, so it doesn't get gouged up like aluminum would, but it weighs less than a steel one.

Jiggle

Yes, the WI is the best deal going on premium hubs. The Industry Nine road hubs are pretty, but they are the same price with only an aluminum freehub. Booooo!

BoSoxYacht

Not to mention the fact that I9 freehubs are fragile maintenance *****s.

sheepdog84

I'm about ~190 riding WI hubs to A23s - 28/24, and have never had an issue with either the hubs or rims...

I say go for it... You could always go for a stronger rim in the rear, since that seems to take the most abuse.

i've also grown fond of the freehub click WI hubs make... therapeutic.