Hapsmo911

I weigh in around 200 depending on the season. I was looking at a couple winter wheel options. Campy Zondos or a custom Rear with a White Industries T11 Hub 28 Sapim spokes laced to a DT R585 Rim. These two options cost nearly the same (aprox. $350) I have a front wheel to match that custom rear. This will be for rain or shine night rides after work so possible potholes etc. I was looking for a decent set to stand some slight abuse. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

chaadster

I think the Zondas are 2Way Fit and can be set up tubeless, and so I'd favor them for that reason for your intended riding. I think the benefits of tubeless trump any differences that may exist between the wheels.

Marcus_Ti

I'd take the custom build. Any old wheel can be made tuebless if you want. And further you never have to worry about bizzarro proprietary parts that take forever to get or cost an arm.

chaadster

Any old wheel can be converted, but you sacrificing the security of a specific rim (re: burping, roll-off) and you'll need to rely on sealant for airtightness. Not to say it won't work, but you could be facing some headaches. In terms of ease of use, tubeless specific or 2way fit is much better.

Regarding proprietary parts, I assume you're talking about spokes, however besides the infrequency of spoke breakage, I don't think there's anything strange about an aero-section straight pull steel spoke as used in Zonda that would make a difference in this regard. I suppose you could argue that straight pull are less common than J bend, but whether your LBS would stock either spoke, and in the size you need, is a wildcard.

carpediemracing 

I have to agree here. I had two sets of Eurus (steel spokes). One set I bought, one set a friend gave me after he bent both rims (don't ask me how he did it as he was all of 140 lbs soaking wet). I was in the 190-210 lbs range when I rode the Eurus, I had a double flat hitting a sunken manhole cover while drafting a truck at about 40-45 mph, and the Eurus were fine, absolutely fine. They're under a friend now, someone I've known for maybe 15+ years. I wouldn't have let him ride them if I thought they were bad.

On the other hand I figured I could just lace new rims onto the Eurus hubs. I managed to find a front Eurus rim but not a rear. Because I didn't want to deal with doing new spokes (with a different Campy G3 rim), because the G3 spoke pattern limited me to Campy rims only (three spokes sort of together, 27 hole rim/hub aka 9x3), and because Campy didn't offer a wide rim, I gave the essentially new hub/spokes to a friend who had a well used Eurus rear wheel with a bad hub.

Based on that the Zonda should be a great wheel. However the proprietary part thing definitely can come into play. If Campy stops making something unique to that wheel then you're basically SOL.

bruin11

Campy makes 2 different versions of the Zonda. The tubeless two way fit version and a normal clincher.

chaadster

I emphasized "part" because yes, I think the rim is the only exclusive factor. Campagnolo has been doing G3 for a decade or so now, I think, but still the point is valid, for sure. Proprietary, though, could be used to describe hub parts on both WI and Campy hubs, no?

Being able to securely run tubeless on a 2Way Fit for all-weather night rides (probably solo?) far exceeds concerns about rim replacement on the Zondas in my mind, though.

chaadster

Good point. OP needs to be sure which are available to him. Without 2Way, I'd go WI for the matching front factor.

carpediemracing 

True on G3 for a decade. I spent a long time looking for a rim that would work in place of the Eurus. No alum spoke versions since I had steel spokes. Zonda might work but they were also unavailable. I checked QBP for years, the place where I got the front rim (through a shop that let me look through the catalog/site to put together orders for myself). If I found another source for the rims I don't remember it.

I gave up maybe 2 or 3 years ago, that's when I gave the other guy the whole wheel. He's on the hub now. If I could I'd be on hub.

For hubs… I so rarely have problems with them I tend to ignore them. I have a number of hubs from different generations of Campy where the wheels around them failed due to one reason or another. It seems that bearings are not very proprietary (they're usually off the shelf cartridge bearings), etc. Freehub bodies, yes, but those seem to be available for a while. I have a new-in-bag cassette body for the Eurus (which is what I thought would wear first). But a steel spoke G3 27H rim? Not very easy.

On the other hand I agree that immediate safety/function takes precedence over parts replacement availability at some undefined future date. I'm not a tubeless rider so I have no input there.

fa63

I rode Campy Zonda wheels for two years (with tubeless tires) and did not have to true them once. Then one day, I hit a nasty pothole which caused the rear wheel to go very slightly out of true (I was expecting a lot worse). I could have easily kept riding it that way, but I wanted to have the hubs serviced anyways so I took them in to the LBS. The next ride after this service, I mysteriously broke a spoke in the rear wheel. My guess is that the mechanic wasn't experienced with G3 spokes and caused some sort of imbalance in spoke tension during the truing process. Anyways, after that I took the wheel in to a Campy approved shop to have the spoke replaced and everything is fine again.

About a year ago, I got the urge to try out some hand-built wheels (H Plus Son TB14 rims with BHS hubs, and Reynolds 46 rims with WI T11 hubs) and to be honest, my experience with them has not been as positive, in that both of those wheelsets require regular attention (I have to true them quite often). They were both built by very reputable builders, so I don't think it is an issue of build quality.

canam73

Unless you are badly over-sized for the spoke count or there is something else you haven't mentioned, what you describe here is absolutely what would happen with a poor wheel build.

fa63

I don't believe I am over-sized for the spoke count for either wheel set (both of which were built with heavier gauge spokes with extra durability in mind). I also don't believe the wheels were poorly built.

What my experience has suggested to me is that perhaps the "factory built" wheels are not as bad as we think they are, as the automatic response to the question of hand-built vs. factory built seems to be to go with hand-built wheels.

canam73

So they are going out of true because of a hex or something?

Well built wheels (hand built or factory) that are not being abused in some manner do not just go out of true. Design can play a role if the spoke count or pattern isn't appropriate.

Also, how heavy are the spokes? It shouldn't cause the wheels to loose trueness, but a standard DB (2.0-1.8-2.0) or even lighter wouldn't either unless it was wound up during building (ie, poor build).

BTW, I have nothing against factory wheels as a whole. Campy/Fulcrum in particular seem to be fairly free of incidents that would normally be attributed to poor builds. But in most incidents I can build something better suited to my individual needs for less money, and I happen to enjoy the work.

fa63

Wheelset 1: H Plus Son TB14 rims, Bike Hub Store hubs with Sapim Race spokes, 32 f/r with 3x lacing, brass nipples.
Wheelset 2: Reynolds 46 clincher rims, White Industries T11 hubs with DT Competition spokes, 20f radial/24r 2x lacing, brass nipples.
Wheelset 3: Ambrosio Nemesis tubular rims, Shimano Dura Ace hubs with Sapim Race spokes, 32 f/r with 3x lacing, brass nipples.

All of these wheelsets, especially 1 and 3, have required more regular attention than the various Mavic, Shimano and Campy factory wheels I have used. The rider is the same, the roads are the same (pothole rich roads of Atlanta, GA). Maybe I just have bad luck with builders (who have stellar reputations locally and/or nationwide), or I am just plain unlucky?

canam73

I don't know what 'regular attention' means and I haven't ridden Atlanta roads. I also don't know how heavy you are. But going with the idea you are within normal road cycling parameters in both weight and riding style, those builds should be able to tick off many thousands of miles between truings. Wheels that I have built using very similar parts do as do plenty of others. For reference, I weigh 180# and ride Wisconsin roles with plenty of pot holes and frost heave and do not consider myself gentle on equipment.

But that said, I would the take issue back to your builder. If they care about their reputation and their customers they should want to fix the issue, because it is fixable.

rpenmanparker 

BTW Bike Hub Store has 27 hole Pacemti rims for triplet lacing. Right now they have them with the grouped spoke holes. That may or may not be true for the long haul. But evenly spaced spokes would work just as well with the OEM hubs.

dtrain

Maybe 32h 3x is becoming a lost art?

fa63

Regular attention means that I have to true them occasionally; sometimes it is every couple weeks, sometimes couple months. Two of the wheelsets were built not locally, and it would be a pain to ship them back to have them looked at so I haven't bothered, plus I don't really mind truing them occasionally. It is just that in my case the factory built wheels on the same roads and under the same rider seem to hold up better for whatever reason (maybe our roads favor stronger rims built with higher tension; I don't know). Obviously other people's experiences might vary.

Hapsmo911

Thank you for all the opinions. The proprietary Campy parts is something that is going to affect my decision and something I hadn't thought of. I am leaning toward another Psimet wheel for this reason. The 2 way wheel system is something to think about. I do ride alone at night in the rain. Its 20 miles round trip. I have double flatted more then once.

ingo

I have run the Campy Eurus tubeless as my primary wheelset for over 6000 km without needing to true them. That is worth a lot to me. Even though I built all of my previous 10 wheelsets, which are lighter, the reliability of the factory sets are worth it. I think it is due to the stronger and stiffer rim that keeps the wheel true, whereas the higher spoke count wheels allow a lighter less rigid rim. I don't worry about the proprietary parts so much, even my 1991 Campy Record group can still find parts if you hunt around.

Marcus_Ti

I rode a pair of Zondas for 8 years (2006s IIRC)...after that, due to the dorky G3 spoke pattern I could not bring back the state of round in the rear rim whatsoever due to the spoke spacing and where hops fell between spoke groups. It wasn't terrible, but it couldn't be fixed.

Back on 28/28 King R45s laced to Belgium+ rims, and happy as a clam. Lighter and more durable and easier to work on if ever needed.

chaadster

If it helps, it looks like Bikeman.com, who've been around since the '90s at least, have a good selection of Campagnolo rims on offer. At least it would appear that if you were to need one, it wouldn't be as though no one could ever imagine how they get one; they're available, but yes, pricey:

Campagnolo Rim