shyonelung

I know, this comes up a lot here but indulge me. I feel fine. I work out 2 to 4 times a week, two days with a trainer. I ride as often as I can, different routes hills and flats and my average while improving, isn't jumping tall buildings (presently I'm 14 mph average up from 10 last year) over 25-40 mile rides. I haven't had any real issues in a long time. I feel strong, I'm getting good sleep, I'm stretching. And while I push myself, I try not to overdo it. But, I'm getting a little soreness in the front of my knees. It's not stopping me from cycling, and sometimes I don't even feel it while I'm cycling. The only exception was during my 100K when I was riding for the first time in about 11 days and then on a cold day when I didn't use leg warmers. Anyway, is this possibly a bike fit? I've heard that the better cyclist you become, the more you need to look or relook at how your bike fits you. Or am I not stretching enough, or is it possibly that I'm not icing after writing. Or is it that I'm using more of the harder gears now that I am stronger? That is, I'm not spinninh as much as I did before. And is this a temporary thing or do I need to stay off the bike for a while? Any advice would be great.

Mostly the soreness happens at night when I'm in bed. The very front of my kneecap is well, let's just say there barking at me a little bit....going to put a little ice on them tonight before go to sleep to see if that helps but I am curious if anyone had any similar experiences and what happened or how they handled it. I do do a lot of squatting exercises in my session with my trainer. I guess one could extrapolate that I may be doing too much of those exercises.but, having said that, it's the squats that have mostly contributed to my vast improvements to my cycling performance. Easy these days, more likely my breath goes out before my legs.I guess I really want to know if you think I'm pushing myself too hard to the point where I might really enjoy myself or if this is just a collateral pain from cycling that will be lessened as I get better and stronger and the muscles around my knees get better toned.

Lazyass

Chester Knee Clinic | Knee Problems - Cycling Knee Problems

rpenmanparker 

This is just a personal observation. I don't mean it as a diagnosis of your problem. In my experience I am much more likely to damage knees at the health club (gym) than by anything that I could do on the bike. Squats can be too low, and that can cause knee problems. Whenever I have used leg press or leg curl/reverse curl machines, I have always hurt my right knee. Squats and plié squats cause me absolutely no problems, but I don't go deeper than I should.

On the other hand aching of any part of the legs while trying to go to sleep has always meant the legs are telling me they have been worked hard. Most quads however in my case. It could be from cycling or from bad bike fit. You should get that checked out first thing.

I would be more careful in the gym, get my fit checked, and allow for some healing before hitting it hard again. At this season that shouldn't be too hard to do.

Machka 

Have a look over this article ...

CYCLING PERFORMANCE TIPS - Leg, Knee, and Hip Pain

Midtown

What worked for me was smaller cranks. I went from 170mm to 135mm. No more pain.

This gentleman helped me.
https://bikesmithdesign.com/Short_Cranks/rom.html

909Rat

maybe the cleats? what worked for me was putting a wedge under the cleats. BikeFit - Cleat Wedges

RJM

135mm cranks? I've never heard of them that short.

BoSoxYacht

Cooler temps will definitely cause the type of pain you are describing. Knee warmers are great for cool mornings, but small enough to stow in a jersey pocket once it warms up over(over 60 degrees).

popeye

That must be a typo for 165.

Midtown

No typo, please read the link and other info on shorter cranks on his site. Look at the difference between 175mm and 135mm.
From his site.
Some examples, showing power with short cranks;
I have one customer, 6'-2" (188cm) tall, with range of motion issues, competing in long distance Brevets on 95mm cranks. Another gent with range of motion limits is climbing the hills of San Francisco with a single 38t chainring and a 12-25 cassette, also on 95s. Because your legs are straighter, you push harder on the pedals, making up for lost leverage. The fellow in San Francisco bends pedal spindles.

One of my customers, 5'-7" (170cm) tall professional triathlete Courtney Ogden, won the big money 2011 Western Australia Ironman on 145s. The next day, despite being wasted, he ordered a set of 130s. He's done extensive work with the people at PowerCranks where they are becoming big advocates of shorter cranks.

A few years ago a team of 4 Australian MTB racers, ranging in height from 5'10 to 6"1 won a 24 hour MTB race on 125s. With the shorter cranks they rarely had to stand. conserving energy. And they were able to get by with a single chainring because the useful RPM range is so wide with shorties. . The wider useful RPM range is good for kids as they aren't always in the right gear (Unlike us grownups :-)

A local Gravel Road racer is 6'-2" and after much trial and error finds he is fastest on 135s despite having no RoM or other issues.

Midtown

See above.

Midtown

See above.

milkbaby

The links that Lazyass and Machka posted seem pretty informative.

One other thing from what you wrote -- that you were not spinning as much as before -- it's conventional wisdom that mashing puts more stress on your knees than spinning. If you were comfortable spinning, pedaling with a cadence of 90+ rpm, before, then there's not necessarily any good reason to slow your cadence down simply because you're stronger. In fact, many of the best riders that I ride with pedal at a fairly high cadence around 95-100 rpm.

Jed19

I agree with milkbaby re spinning and keeping up your cadence. I also stopped doing squats a long time ago, and my knees are healthier for it. Squats are great exercise, but unless you are very precise and exact with your form, they'll kill your knees in my view.

shyonelung

I took a bit of advice from almost most of these posts. To clarify: it's not that I'm necessarily mashing more, it's that I'm able to spin in harder gears. I used to be in my small ring most of the ride but now I find, on rollers especially, that I need to be in the big ring. Otherwise, I'm spinning too loose, if that makes sense. I'm afraid to change my set up because I still need the easy gears for hills and I would say that lately, I've noticed I've been using almost all of my gears on long rides. Maybe this is a sign that I need a triple? Thursday, I rode on a cool day with leg warmers on and stuck to a very flat area. Did about 15 miles and kept my cadence high. Then, I skipped the gym Friday and will do a light workout today before embarking on a longish ride tomorrow. So far, except for the damned head cold, I feel great. Asked my LBS owner and cycling mentor about my cranks and he's going to do a new fit for me as we haven't done one in several months. I'm stronger and more pliable then I was then. So an adjustment or two might be in order. Thank you!

EvilWeasel

Before you start buying stuff. Try raising the seat 1/4 to 1/2 an inch.

Worknomore

Interesting about the short cranks. I have been dealing with chondromalacia for the past 16 years. Usually riding helps but riding hard does not. I made up a set of 145's out of a set of 175's I had laying around yesterday. Looking forward to giving them a good tryout. Anything to stay on the bike!

Carbonfiberboy 

Since BF has such a crappy search function, do this:
google "Chondromalacia site:bikeforums.net"

Raise your saddle until the heel of your cycling shoe is about 4mm off your pedal when your knee is completely locked out. Try the exercises you'll find in the BF threads from the search. Nothing to do with crank length or pedal force IMO.

hueyhoolihan

i'd refrain from taking 11 days off then riding a 100K, maybe not ride in cold weather when not properly dressed too.

Worknomore

Gee, I wish I had your amazing internet diagnosis of my issue 16 years ago. Would have saved me a lot of hard work, doctors visits & bills, bike fittings, physical therapy, etc, etc...

Midtown

Please let us know how the 145's work out.

TallTravel

Cranks that short would certainly take some getting used to for me. It seems I'd have to work hard to keep my center directly over the pedals the full 360 degrees. Weight seems like it would have to be well back of where it is now.

BoSoxYacht

Many people get knee pains at this time of year due to riding in temps under 60 degrees without any coverings on their knees. 60 doesn't feel cold to most people, but it's cool enough to cause problems.

JimmyH

I had been having pain behind my right knee for quite awhile. Comes and goes, stretching helped, but a couple of weeks ago, having found and read the site Machka linked, I lowered my seat post 5mm, my pain seems to have resolved and gone away. Good luck with it.

Alias530

Foam roll your IT band. Trust me.