justinzane

Some people ride mostly on the flat, like I did many years ago in Florida; some ride with huge climbs and descents. I'm currently in an area where I normally ride with few long flats, no slopes over about 185m/600ft vertical change and lots of little steep grade changes. To give an example that may be relate-able for most, consider highway (motorway) over/underpasses -- 8-10% grade, 50ft vertical over 300ft horizontal. Those little steep parts fit between constantly changing minor grades. I seldom am able to go 1000m without shifting.

I'm going to get a new crankset and am between a compact double (50/34 or similar) or a triple. I used barend shifters, so swinging through many cogs on the back is no big deal. For those who frequently ride this sort of terrain, what do you recommend?

caloso

I would think a 50/34 with a 12-27 cassette is plenty.

zymphad

I ride small hills and use 50/34 12-25 and only drop to 34 maybe one to two times. I have 11-28, 5700 105 set too, and it's been sitting doing nothing for the past year.

Yes I cross chain, ALL THE TIME!

Bunyanderman

50/34 should be fine for the front. The back would be more comfortable around 12-(28-32).

Homebrew01

Similar terrain here. No flat roads. either rollers or short steep hills.
I currently use 53 x 39 and 12-25, but now that I'm old & out of shape, considering putting a compact on one bike for now.
(I'm a bit of a masher on climbs)

justinzane

Do you use a short or long RD with that setup?

zymphad

I use Shimano 10 speed. Both 105, Ultegra, Dura Ace derailleus medium (normal) work with 28. It's only the 32 you need long cage. I believe it's the same if you use Tiagra 10 speed derailleur, medium normal is fine.

If you want the 11-28, you can have them, $25 and you pay the shipping. They work with SRAM 10 speed too. 5700 if you want to look it up for weight and features.

Acquaspin

That's my biking world description. Currently ride a 50/34 and 12/28. 1 - 1.5 mile long climbs 6-10% avg and 34-25 or 34-28 get it covered. I have worked on higher cadence for the past 5 years, went from 12-26 to 12-28 and climbing speed has only gone up. Group i ride with occasionally have mashers doing OK with 12-25. Two older guys have 12-32 and another has a triple. We all climb about same speed.

I did my second season in the 34 ring only, biggest improvement of all 5 seasons, bit of cross chaining but well worth it. As long as you don't like/have to pedal going down hill, in this type of terrain it is possible to ride decent speeds without using the big front ring at all.

I'd say if you're more a spinner 12-27 or 12-28 would work, if you're more a masher 12-25 should be ok.

Igualmente

I have a 50/34 compact with 12-30 cogs and live with rolling hills. I spin up hills a lot (>90 cadence) and I'm frequently onto the 27 cog, and occasionally, depending on steepness and weariness, into the 30. Have yet to run into need for more than that.

justinzane

I've been working on boosting the cadence, as well; though I'd be passed by tortoises if I stayed on a 34T! This is about 6mo into my first year riding, though, so I'm OK with simply managing consistent month-to-month improvements.

It seems that the overall consensus is that a compact double is a highly appropriate choice. So, I think I'll give it a spin ... (Doh! unintentional pun) ...

Thank you all!

RogueRadio

I use 52/36 and 11-28 Ultegra. Works well, not too hard, but you aren't spinning like a hamster on steep stuff either.

Homebrew01

What is the lowest gear that you use now ?

valygrl

It seems like your terrain would be the absolute worst for bar end shifters. why are you using those?

justinzane

28F/28R ~= 1
...
48F/11R ~= 14

That is with a 28/38/48 triple front and 11-28 rear. Gear numbers are based on a cadence-equivalence spacing.

justinzane

1) Because they are indestructable. I've gone through a major wreck and they never even required readjustment. The bars in which they were installed were destroyed, the front wheel was taco'd and the fork needed slight straightening.
2) Because my pinkies and the heels of my hand have learned to use them effortlessly.
3) Because the front is NOT indexed to anything and therefore can work with just about any double or triple I stick on.
4) Because they will work the same with drop bars or TT bars.
5) Because they get the Rivendell/VeloOrange crowd all excited. And because I have enough of a receding hairline to be a retro grouch. (Though researching the use of UHMWPE layers in a carbon reinforced polymer to improve directional flex probably means that I'm not really too retro.)
6) Because until I find a drivetrain that I really like, I'm not going to drop the cash on brifters that have become more and more limited in the components they will work smoothly with.
7) Because Di2/EPS are rapeware -- as discussed elsewhere, while they are excellent products, they are sold at a few THOUSAND percent markup over part, fab and assembly costs.
8) Because I can fly through 4-5 gears on the back in far less time than required by brifters that only do stepwise shifting. (And I do know that some are more flexible in this respect.
9) Because I can shift with the water bottle in hand. I can even shift with the friggin bottle.
10) Because I spent $30 for perfect shifting!!! Please stand silently for a moment of respect to the long deceased SunTour.

Sarcasm and (un)witicisms aside, it seems like you would be most familiar with riding in the mountains. I'd love to know what shifters (Shim DA/Ult/Tia/105, Campy SR/R/Ath/Vel, SRAM Red/Force/Rival, Microshift, anything else) you've tried and what you like/dislike about them in this particular context. I have been cycling for about 5.5 months, so I am trying to experiment with cheap and/or used components to see what works for me while I am developing a tiny bit of skill, strength and endurance. Someone like me buying a really nice gruppo now seems as dumb as giving my wonderful but techno-hopeless mother a supercomputer.

The goal here (in this post) is to learn from folks like you and everyone else who has more experience. That way I can make more informed component purchases and gain a modicum of experience vicariously. Doing so seems to help from making expensive and silly mistakes. The rest requires miles on the road!

Acquaspin

Unless question was misunderstood (lowest gear actually USED, not lowest gear available); If 28F/28R is actually the lowest gear you use on your rides, even a 34F 32R would not cover that range.

Find the lowest gear that you actually USE to comfortably get over hills on your rides. Then use the sheldon tables to find gain ratios equivalents and figure out what combination in stock compact cranks / cassettes would cover those ratios. Add an extra low cassette sprocket for good measure and you'll be set.

Say you actually use 28F/25R to get over the hardest climb. 28F/25R is almost the same as 34F/30R or 36F/ 32R. Stock road cassettes do not go over 32 (and you'll need a long cage rear derrailleur for 32). So for good measure i'd go with 34F/32R (34F/30R would cover your current lowest gear need, having the 32R would be there for saving the bad days, longer rides, longer climbs, hill repeats, etc).

justinzane

I get that. I'm planning on eventually getting a 2nd frame, so one will have a more "mountain" drivetrain with a long cage and a 1X-34 rear, small triple front and fatter (28mm, 32mm) tires. Whether it ends up being a cross like or touring like bike, I'm not sure. Right now, I've gone from absolutely needing the 28:28 to climb up my steepest hills back in May to being able to do most of them at 38:28 (34:25ish) or similar. Even without a 2nd bike, I'm handy enough to change out the derailleurs, cassette and chainrings in a few hours if I am planning a trip to somewhere with significantly different terrain. I'm just thinking about my everday, local rides in this post.

Also, as we are heading into the wet and snow, I'll be spending some of my riding time at the gym instead, doing squats, deadlifts, etc. to build strength. [As an aside, about 10 years ago I partially ripped up the meniscus in my right knee. When I started riding this spring, I used excessively low gears to minimize the stress on that joint. I've been pleasantly surprised to find that my knee is now effectively as strong as it has ever been just from riding without ever really mashing the cranks.]

MikeyBoyAz

This, and love it. Keeps the cross chaining to a minimum. Granted it's 11 speed, the results should be the same for 10.

valygrl

I've been riding for 23 years. I've used down tube shifters, 4 generations of Shimano "brifters" (I don't like that word), bar end shifters (probably 15,000 miles of loaded touring) , a variety of mountain bike shifters, and now DI2. You might want to tone down the attitude, and not use words like "rapeware" but I'll try to leave my feelings on that aside. If your true goal is to learn, your tone isn't doing you any favors, since you'll just polarize the response and end up with a big messy argument, instead of helpful insight.

As mentioned, I have extensive experience on bar end shifters, and while they do the job just fine, in situations where you have to shift a lot, they are slower to access. You can't shift from bar end shifters when you are standing up with your hands on the hoods. You have to move your hands if you are riding the tops, hoods or hooks. You can only shift without moving your hands if your hands are on the end of the bars. So - that's why I made that comment.

The situations where bar end shifters are particularly poor are rolling terrain that requires lots of shifting and group rides where you need to shift a lot to tune your speed to the group, plus you need perfect control since you are riding close with other people. Bar ends are fine for touring and solo toodling along, but for real road riding they are inferior.

Anyway, It sounds like your real question is what crankset to get - I don't have much to offer on that front. If you aren't changing shifters, I would say any compact double is probably fine, the biggest benefit of a triple is to be able to have both closely spaced gearing and a wide range. For your terrain, closely spaced isn''t as important, but wide range is, and there are a lot more doubles on the market than triples.

I've switched to DI2 for my own reasons, but I would never use bar ends for rolling terrain myself. I'm sure any of the big 3 manufactures "brifters" would be fine for you if you decide to switch to modern components. You don't have to get DI2 or Dura Ace, anything above the lowest levels will be great. Personally I ride a ton and find the best components to be worth the money FOR ME, but you don't have to spend as much. I bet if you switched to Shimano 105 your mind would be blown as to how much better it is. But if $30 is what you want to spend, then that's your prerogative.

I don't know why you drank Grant Peterson's cool-aide, but you don't have to be a retro grouch just because you think you are old. The new stuff is better.

caloso

For what it's worth, I've found the best shifting group for rolling hills is 10-speed Campy (Centaur/Chorus/Record). If you're bombing along on the flats in the big ring up front and the middle of the cog in back, when the road pitches up you hit both thumb levers. This drops the chain onto the 39 in the front and 3 cogs down in the back, putting you in essentially the same ratio but in the lower range so you can start working up the cog if need be.

kv501

This is why we cant have anything nice around here.

carpediemracing 

I live and ride in the same area as Homebrew. I also started on down tube shifters, went to a right side bar end, and finally went to ergo/STI levers (ergo for me).

I find that in the area I need to approach hills in two ways.
1. Get it over with. Bigger effort, bigger gear, much faster, typically standing, if sitting I'm pushing a big gear, anaerobic.
2. Twiddle. Smaller gear, pedal a bit smoother, typically seated, much more aerobic (but not completely, else I'd be going really slow).

As an aerobically challenged rider this is the way I approach the terrain around here.

In North County / Carlsbad / SoCal area (I used to make training trips out there), I rarely make it to the top of the moderately long hills in the big ring. The hills there, instead of being 200m long, are more like 500-800m long. For example Palomar Airport Road heading inland is challenging for me - the hills I climb on that relatively easy road surpass most of what I see around at home. If I were dealing with hills like that I'd have to tone down the big gear stuff and do more of the little gear stuff.

A tip on bar ends - most drop bars are too long for most riders. There's a couple inches of dead bar at the end of the drops, stuff that virtually no one uses. You can't reach anything from there, your arms end up too close to your body, etc. What I did when I had my bar end is I cut the drops down to put the shifter in my hand when on the functional part of the drops. Post about it is here, picture from that post below:


At least with this set up I could shift from the drops while still having a finger on a brake lever. Although I did this primarily for crit racing, it comes in handy really any time you're on the drops. I never had a problem with slipping off the drops, I virtually never end up on the drops while not being able to brake (except for very specific situations), and it neatens up the whole drop area.

With a bar end the only time I couldn't shift quickly was when I was on the hoods standing. Otherwise, if I were sitting then it wasn't a big deal to tug on the bar end whether I was on the tops or the hoods. From the drops, sitting or standing, I could shift fine.

If you have a bar end I'd highly recommend having a modern cassette, derailleur, and chain. The modern cassettes have ramps cut into them to enable smooth shifting even under 100% power. The stress from those shifts requires a modern chain. A modern derailleur (early 90s on) will allow the derailleur to move the chain over more precisely. If you have indexed bar ends then this doesn't apply.

I have (Campy) ergo levers but I still cut down my drops until I get to about the same point - heel of my hand is just in front of the end of the bar. In this picture you can see the bar (FSA Wing Compact) ends just after the heel of my hand. I cut maybe 2-2.5 cm off the drops:


With ergo levers I find myself shifting all the time, even on the flats. It's no biggie to see if a slight gear change will be better. I really like being able to shift when standing on the hoods (on hills) or while on the drops making a big effort (sprinting type efforts). I basically ride on the tops or the drops so my ergo levers don't really help me when I'm on the tops.

Drew Eckhardt 

50-39 x 13-26 10 cogs or 12-25 11. A triple crank with either cassette or 12-23 10 cogs works great too and is nice if you ever get in the mountains where there are 5000 foot vertical climbs of 3-6% and you'll ride another 60-70 miles.

I'd ride a triple crank if I couldn't spin 39x21 (10 cogs 11 starting), 23 (10 cogs 12 starting, 11 11 starting), or 25/26 (10 cogs 13 starting, or 11 cogs 12 first position) up the majority of the hills and enjoy the rest and adjust the small ring to suit.

34 is too small for a second ring and forces too many front shifts. I want a ring no smaller than 39 teeth and will add a third one if necessary.

Gearing gaps are too offensive on cassettes bigger than 11-21/12-23/13-26 10 cogs and 11-23/12-25 11. I find that a 13 small cog works great- it is a 30+ MPH cruising gear and 40+ sprinting. Eddy Merckx used a 52x13 big gear and we're all much lesser cyclists.