Alias530

I live in a very flat area. I have to go 30 miles from home to get to anywhere with hills. I have more fun mountain biking than road biking, so if I travel to get there, I take my mountain bike. I've been riding for 2 years and finally drove somewhere to ride my road bike. Wow, that whipped my ass.

I have a compact crank (50/34) and 12-25 cassette. On some of the steeper stuff, I could only manage a cadence in the 50-60 range in my lowest gear. On the flats I'm usually in the 90-100 range. I'm guessing I need to throw on a 11-28 cassette and try again. I feel like I could have gone a lot faster if I hadn't been pushing too high of a gear.

Is there an "ideal" cadence for climbing? Obviously everyone is different but it's probably safe to say that 50 is too low, no?

edit: I'm 6'6" 240lbs. Not fat at all. Came from weight lifting background, started cycling 3-5 days a week two years ago. Mountain biking in steep stuff, road biking mostly flat areas

EnsitMike

Really depends on your style. I’m a lot like Contador—tend to do a little lower cadence but am out of the saddle very often. Someone like Froome spins hard in the saddle though, 90-110, in which case a 27/28 could only be your friend.

Your problem is likely that you just don’t have power yet. Climbing is a completely different ball game than cruising on the flats, even if you maintain 25-30mph at season peak.

edit: and yes 50 is too low for prolonged periods.

merlinextraligh

If you're talking 50-60 rpm for short really steep sections, you're probably okay, just HTFU.

If you're climbing for a prolonged periods at 50 rpm, almost certainly you'll be faster and have better endurance with lower gears.

Try an 11_28, which may require a new chain.

txags92

I prefer to climb in the 75-85 range, but will slow down to the 50-60 range while standing from time to time just to rest my legs a bit. Climbing is all about power/weight ratio...if your power or your weight are not where they need to be, it will be much more difficult.

banerjek

Depends on how far you have to climb. Personally, I'm not a fan of mating a 12/25 with a compact because there is practically no overlap. If you have a 10 speed cassette, 12/27 is *exactly* the same as a 12/25 except the last two cogs which you only use on climbs. If you have an 11 speed, 11/28 will not be ridiculously wide.

But if you don't have far to climb (maybe only a few hundred feet) and what you have works great except on the steepest sections, you're probably fine with what you have. If you get a 27 or 28 on the back, it will be better, but don't expect a massive difference.

On the cadence thing, it depends on how you ride. 50 is pretty low and you'll burn up your spinning muscles quickly if you're just grinding up the hill. That you're even asking the question should give you the answer. Give yourself better low end and you'll have more fun on the steeps.

Alias530

I mountain bike in the dirt trails of these same hills, which are much steeper (30%+ at times), but I have much lower gearing on that bike.

I just wonder how people use 53/39 chainrings, even with an 11-28 cassette.

I'm 6'6" 240lbs so I definitely have weight going against me, but I come from a powerlifting background so I do have decently strong legs, albeit not in the endurance sense.

hueyhoolihan

i'm probably at about 30rpm on the long ascent of Mt. Diablo. i've gotten used to it.

bigdo13

A high one.. spin it to win it baby...

don't listen to the purists... get yourself a compact crank (50-34) with an 11-28 cassette and get up those hills and mountains..

Alias530

I had an 11-28 but got rid of it because most of where I ride is flat and I like having the 16 and 18 tooth cogs around the 17. I usually ride in the 17, but going all the way to 15 or 19 is too big of a jump. I want a 13 speed cassette haha

11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25-28

bigdo13

yeah, I hear ya... people that live in really flat states are kinda lucky...they can rack up the miles easily all day long. I live in CO...lol, everywhere you turn there's a hill or a mountain.. Denver's pretty flat though... and yeah, an 11-28 can be pretty useless in areas that are primarily flat...

EnsitMike

Should have been the first thing you mentioned. Your power to weight ratio is going to kill you on the climbs.

Get a new cassette and compact cranks if you plan on climbing.

happyscientist

It really depends on how steep the grade is and how used to it you are. I ride a compact double and 11-28t and spin right up a 5% grade. Double that two a 10% grade, and my cadence goes down to 40-50 rpm, keeping a gear or two in emergency reserve. Bump that grade up to 15-20%, and I just try to go fast enough that the bike doesn't fall over.

Alias530

Yeah, 95% of my time is in the 15-19 cogs around here. A few short steep sections where I'll use the 23 or 25, but until yesterday I don't even know that I've used my 34T chainring besides to make sure it shifted right when I got the bike
I have a compact already, Dura Ace 9000 50/34. Going from a 25 low gear to a 28 low gear is about 12%... hopefully that is enough to help. I'll take the 11-28 off my cross bike before I use my road bike to climb with again.

Alias530

Yeah I was fine on the 5-8% grades but the 12-15% were rough.

I think I did pretty well considering it was my first time climbing more than 200ft at a time on a road bike. I went with my buddy who is a cat1 racer and although I'm sure he was holding back, I did alright keeping up with him on the flats, but he blew me away on the climbs.

lyrictenor1

Definitely give a 28 a shot. No shame in putting in the lowest gear and spinning right up the climb; you'll give your cardiovascular system a good work out. Hit the hills regularly, and you'll find yourself spinning up the hills in incrementally higher gears bit by bit as both your cardiovascular strength improves and as you generate more and more power. Also, consider moving back in the saddle when climbing: it helps engage your hamstrings, which can be a good benefit while climbing.

lyrictenor1

Yup. Riding on flats vs climbing are two completely different things.

Bunyanderman

I run a 34-50 with a 11-28 for climbing, along with a 142 pound body and 15 pound bike. I can really tackle any gradient now, I sit at most things under 10% in my 34/25 or 34/28. Anything over 25% and I am out of the saddle in my 34/28. For about 10mph I am in a 34/22 or 34/25, under 6 mph I go 34/28.

Carbonfiberboy 

What gears other people use is of zero interest. Only care about cadence. You need to find what your best cadence is for long climbs, bearing in mind that cadence is trainable so it's not necessarily a fixed number. Most folks do best at 75-85, so that's a good place to start. You can find gear and cadence calculators that will tell you your cadence when you enter speed and teeth, or vice versa.

Here are two:
Bicycle Bike Gear Ratio Speed and Cadence Calculator
HTML5 Gear Calculator

Stucky

Getting lower gearing may make life easier on you, but it won't necessarily make you an y faster up the hills- you'll spin faster, but likely go about the same speed as you do now, because the wheels travel a shorter distance with every stroke of the pedal.

I live in a hilly place- one of my bikes has 11-28 x 50/36, and the other bike has 11-23 x 53/39....the former sure makes life easier and allows me to spin a little faster up the hills- but on the biggest hills, my speed is still 4-6MPH, just as it is on the 23x39.

RChung

The cadence other people use is of zero interest. Only care about whether you can get up the hill comfortably with your gearing and your cadence. Lots of people say that they climb at a certain cadence. I've never seen that. What I've seen is that riders vary their cadence according to the steepness of the slope, the amount of effort they want to put out for that climb, the length of the climb, and the gearing they have available to them. Here you can see how one guy varied his cadence with the steepness of the slope. Doesn't look like he was climbing at a fixed cadence, does it?

jimincalif

I live in an area where it is pretty routine to climb 6% with some areas up to 10-12%. I have a compact crank and when getting new wheels the shop recommended changing from 11-28 to 12-30. I went with this and love it having that 30 in reserve. I'm 6'2" and 205#. I will usually spin 88-95 on flats and 75-80 on climbs, occasionally down to 67-70 on the steepest climbs. My short cage Ultegra derailleur has no problem with the 30.

Drew Eckhardt 

A compact crank only gets you one gear lower than a standard double. At your power-to-weight ratio you could be in road triple territory.

After about 30 seconds cycling isn't about strength - your muscles are limited by how much oxygen your lungs and heart can deliver to them. After a few minutes how fast your body gets rid of lactate is the limit.

Any muscle beyond what it takes to get to those limits is dead weight you're hauling around. While you can work around that mechanically, you shouldn't expect to do so using equipment like that built for the typical bicycle racer who's somewhat big at 160 pounds.

The same cadence which is ideal for you at a given power output on flat ground. Riding harder requires more RPMs to recruit enough muscle fibers, and the cadence which minimizes fatigue is also higher.Often it's better to compromise accepting a lower cadence in exchange for tighter spacing between gears. Sometimes it's not.

If you're racing formally or informally it's too low because at that RPM you can't recruit enough muscle fibers for maximum output.

Otherwise it's too low when it causes premature fatigue or causes knee problems.

5'10". 135-140. T-rex arms. Ribs and sternum sticking out. Enough glutes and quads. My wife worries my doctors aren't noticing something wrong. 34x23 gets me over everything in the Colorado Rockies enjoying most of it. You want a low gear providing more than two cogs additional mechanical advantage to keep your cadence up.

Carbonfiberboy 

Well, yes. I think we are saying about the same thing. Yes, one does vary the cadence with slope when one runs out of gears. There will also be limited choice because, depending on the cassette, shifting between cogs will change cadence five or so beats. Unlike on the flat, where people will tend to pedal a narrow range of comfortable cadence, when climbing people tend to keep the effort constant, thus shifting and being forced to change cadence slightly to suit each gear.

That said, I try to choose a cassette for the terrain I'm riding and have it include cogs which will give me my best results. The vast majority of people with whom I've ridden do tend to pedal 75-85, which is quite a wide range. If I'm climbing a multi-hour pass, I seem to get my best VAM at exactly 78, cassette allowing. So my personal experience is at variance with what you are saying about not having a most efficient cadence. If you've seen many of my posts, you know that I try to always post from my experience.

Beyond my experience, lab studies show that individual cyclists will have their greatest time to exhaustion at a specific output within quite a narrow range of cadences. This seems to vary with the individual to some extent, though there are broad trends to be seen: the shorter the time period, the lower the cadence, down to 50-55. Longer time periods favor higher cadences. Your scattergram is demonstrating that one particular rider has very particular cadences which he has found by experience to work best for him on slopes of varying gradients. Or he has simply run out of gears, being one of those racer types who would never be seen with over a 25 in back. Your cyclist is probably an elite rider, since he tends to pedal a 5% grade at a much higher cadence than a recreational cyclist would use: 80-100, but mostly close to 90. That is comfortable for him and gives him his best results. I climb 5% grades faster as I said, at about 78, my VO2max being so much lower. Which is exactly what I'm talking about: Find your best cadence for the terrain and choose gearing to suit it. Which I think is the same thing you're saying. The gearing on which your scattergram is based would not suit me at all.

happyscientist

When you get on the 25%+ grades, how do you balance the weight front-and-back? I have a really hard time with hills that steep because I always end up lifting my front wheel off the ground or I lose traction on the back wheel. Is there some trick to finding the right balance, or is it just practice? I have a triathlon this fall with a 31% grade on a cobblestone road in it. If you can make it up the hill without putting a foot down, they engrave your name on a brick and put it in the road. I really want that brick. A couple weeks ago, I attempted a short stretch at 35% and couldn't make it because I lost my cool when the front wheel kept lifting.

datlas 

Wow that's a long time to grind. I imagine that is taking you around 2 hours??