scplus5

I ordered a set of these to replace the gum walls I had on my bike. Got them yesterday and figured I'd slap them on real quick and test them out before I had to be somewhere. That didn't happen...they were a nightmare to get on the rim (dt swiss rr440). I ended up spending about three hours screwing with them last night and finally got them on around 11pm. They were just ridiculously hard to get the last section onto the rim. I ended up using a hair dryer to heat them up a bit and then I was able to pry them on.
What caused this?
What am I supposed to do in the case of a roadside flat? There's no way, unless they loosen up that I'll ever be able to get them on the rim unless I carry a portable hair dryer in my jersey.

GlennR

I put a new set on a few days ago and they were not difficult. Not sure why you had problems.

mlamb01

Brand new tires are always the hardest to get on. When you put them on the first time, you stretch them out some, and they will be easier to remount the next time. One thing you can do to pre stretch them is to step on the tire with your foot, then pull up on it with your hands.

rpenmanparker 

Tight tires are a safety feature to keep them from blowing off so don't wish them otherwise. Some folks have sufficient hand strength for even the tightest tire/rim combination; others not so much. Be sure you move the first bead of the tire that is fully on the rim to the center of the rim where the circumference is a little smaller. That helps free up some slack to get the second bead on. Use a slight inflation to round out the tube, but let some air out at the end if you need too to make some slack. If you still don't have the hand strength to do it easily, no sweat. It isn't a lifetime accomplishment competition. Just get a "bead jack" type tire tool, such as a Kool Stop, VAR, or Crank Brothers. They never fail to get the second bead over the rim edge. The VAR and Crank Brothers are small enough to carry on the road, so no worries about getting stuck with a flat. There was another thread in the last few days on the same topic with photos and links to the bead jacks. Here is the link to that thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycli...ead-brand.html

scplus5

Thanks Robert. I'll probably get that VAR on order to keep in my bag because I'm genuinely concerned about not being able to change a flat on the road. And I'm no weakling by ANY stretch of the imagination...they were just that freaking hard.

Is is there a video or how to online for that tool somewhere? I don't really see how it works just from that picture.

rm -rf

I had a similar problem when I first got my new wheels. The GP4000 tires seemed almost impossible to mount. I had sore fingers and mangled tire levers. Using a previously mounted tire, bead down in the center, pulling the slack around, no tube in the way, nothing worked. It's so tight that even down in the center with no tube, I can't slide the first bead around to line up the label with the valve hole.

But there's an easy way to mount these. The key is to just lift less than an inch of bead, slide the lever over, and repeat. It's fast and easy. I posted a step by step method back in 2010 in this thread.

Like this:

rpenmanparker 

You take the two pieces apart. The simple inner piece that looks like a regular lever is just for use as the second lever to remove a tire. The bent piece the other tire lever and also it is the jack. You work the second bead of the tire on until you can't do any more, usually about 6 inches left exposed. Then you put the notch on the rim edge on the opposite side from where the second bead is for support. The point of the V shape is pointing up and suspended over the rim. Then you reach the hook part over the whole rim width and grab the exposed bead in the middle of its length. Now use the tool as a lever and bend it back on itself so that it pulls the bead over the rim. It isn't always easy either, but it never fails (for me). You may need to use your fingers to push the bead over along with the jacking force. Make sure you have the tube lightly inflated just to shape so it doesn't get caught under the bead. Finally work the hook of the tool out from under the bead and remove it from the tire. A little talcum powder or soapy water on the rim and bead can help also.

Good luck.

FLvector

^^^ Nice write up @rm -rf. It's always best to use your fingers to muscle the tire over the last few inches, but sometimes its just too tight. Carefully use the tire lever as described above and make sure that you don't pinch the tube.

vicbastige

That "prying" places a good deal of stress on the rim. Instead, place the wheel between your legs with the tire at the point you see in your picture. Place your tire tool on the OUTSIDE of the tire (picture it about two inches to the left of where your tool is in the picture and with the tool facing up). Run the tool forward with force and the tire tool will "zip" the tire right on. No tire will take more than 10 seconds to mount this way no matter how tight AND there is zero risk of damage due to prying.

Up North

Must be your rims. I have 3 sets of 4000s11 they all go onto either DA or Bontragger rims with fingers. You should find that after original mount they should go easier next round.

rpenmanparker 

I will have to try that, but in truth there is essentially zero chance of damaging the rim by prying with a tire lever.

Makel

I heard real cyclists only use their guads to put tires on their rims.

rpenmanparker 

Could you post a photo?

Makel

Are started to, but then I realized I didn't want a no no point.




GPK's are only hard that first time. I've got weak thumbs and they pop on and off for me just fine now.

rpenmanparker 

Agreed, especially if you don't have to reinstall it for quite a while after the first time, like maybe a few months. But if you got a pinch flat say from catching the tube under the bead like say the next day while riding, you could still be looking at a really tight tire.

scplus5

Well wouldn't you know....took a half day off work yesterday because the weather was going to be great for a ride. Got my bike down and it had a flat tire. I decided I wasn't screwing with it anymore. Put the bike in the truck, grabbed a 20 and headed to the LBS. Told him all the trouble I had and asked him to install a new tube so I didn't have to. He put some new rim tape in it and mounted the tire....in about 5 minutes. With NO tools. I was amazed to say the least. Hopefully I learned well enough to do it myself. Gave him the 20 and felt it was well worth the lesson. Still shaking my head about how quickly and easily he did that. I would not have believed it if I didn't see it.

rpenmanparker 

That is a good plan too.

nhluhr

the DT RR440, being a Tubeless Ready rim bed, does in fact create a bit more effort for tire mounting. If anything, your old gumwalls were loose or stretched-loose. I've found that yellow Veloplugs work well in my DT RR440 and RR440Asymmetric rims, giving a hair more slack than a normal rim strip leaves. You absolutely have to install the tire correctly that that means the final bit of bead you seat is at the valve and that you keep the bead centered in the rim channel all the way around before you attempt to finish seating it.

rpenmanparker 

OMG, could you be more wrong? Always do the valve side first and finish 180 deg from there. Two kinds of people I guess.

velociraptor

Yes, GPK's are almost impossible to get on when new. But they definitely get a lot easier after that.

nhluhr

It's cute that you think you're right whereas I have an actual verifiable reason to prove I'm right.

If you finish opposite the valve, that means your 2nd bead cannot be centered in the rim at the point furthest from your finishing point because the valve itself is blocking the bead from getting down into the channel. That effectively increases the circumference you're stretching the bead around and makes finishing harder. On the other hand, if you finish at the valve, the bead can be settled down into the rim channel all the way around giving you the most slack.

So sorry, but you're wrong. Next time you try to call somebody out for being wrong you might want to use your head first.

velociraptor

I think what rpenman was getting at is that, on a tire that is difficult to begin with, you have to put a substantial amount of force onto the bead to get it over the last part of the rim.

If you're finishing on the stem side, it can be problematic because there is less give to the tube when manipulating the tire – the stem prevents full range of movement.

If you finish on the opposite side, you can yank the tire up into the rim around the stem and then roll the bead with your palms up and over the final part of the rim to get it seated.

Seems easier, at least in my experience (years of ham-fisted tire changes here, lol). So I'm inclined to agree with him because it's the way I do it too. But I'm not saying you're wrong. Diff'rent strokes yo.

nhluhr

Plain and simple, if you do it correctly, you don't have to work so hard to seat it over. Besides, you don't need to move the 2nd bead any further than the sidewall of the rim - why would that interfere with there being a tube in there?

I guess keep having fun with your bead jacks and sore fingers.

rpenmanparker 

It's one thing to disagree and quite another get angry about it. I clearly stated there were two approaches in common use, i.e. my comment about two kinds of people. But the vast majority of primers, videos and advice by pros recommend the valve side first approach. As regards getting the beads into the channel rigamarole, I recommend it as far as it is possible, but a lightly inflated tube to keep it from getting pinched is too important to disregard. The shape of the tube makes centering the beads essentially impossible. Maybe some spring binder clips like you use for a stack of paper around the tire would help squeeze the beads together, but I haven't tried that. Also the valve stem often needs to be pushed up into the tire cavity to set it properly. That would be harder at the end than the beginning. So I have reasons too, and the weight of expert advice on my side. But it all doesn't matter. Just use what works for you.

Drew Eckhardt 

Use thinner rim tape to make more slack which can make the difference between cussing at tools and hand-mounting.

2 wraps of 1 mil Kapton will do the trick, totaling .005" versus .020" for most tapes like Velox and .009" for Rox. 5/8" wide (16mm) for traditional width rims, 3/4" (19mm) for wide.

It's also easy to remove, the lightest rim tape, and the least expensive tape when you buy 36 yard rolls not smaller ones which have been relabeled and marked up for the bicycle market.

Also finish at the valve stem.