i may have down played them a little (they are very nice) but what on earth makes them innovative or clever?

as far as i know, this is the only real "innovative" clincher in years"



(thats carbon fiber)

Did I say innovative? I just said clever. There are very few rims that are wider than 20mm that are designed to work well with a 700x23c tire. Hed and Zipp (and now Velocity with their Hed knockoff) are all wise to what a wider rim does to tire footprint and air volume on a 23c clincher tire. Long story short the tire profile is rounder like a tubular and provides more grip and less rolling resistance. The air volume is higher as well which yields a smoother ride. Boxxx does these two things very well and unlike CR18s and other wider box rims it's not a pain in the ass to mount a 23c tire to it.

So yeah, clever. Bringing a throughly modern approach to retro LOOKING rim. The protos rode great and the tire profile and footprint is very good.

And I would say that the zipp firecrest is hardly innovative. They just finally got around to making a clincher version of their carbon products that gives the same effect as their tubulars (and Heds Stinger series). Specifically making the tire or leading edge of the wheel narrower than the rim itself. I would say the zipp 101 aluminum clincher is far more innovative because they were able to accomplish this same goal in aluminum and thusly a much lower price point.

boom

i mentioned the firecrest because of the combination of its shape and full carbon clincher. i wont disagree with the 101 comment though.

i still dont think these rims are "clever". like you stated, others have already shown the benefits, and produce, wider clincher rims. this is just another selection in the growing trend. its "unique" feature is its likeness (in appearance) to older tubular rims.

don't be such a replica watches, let stalk to chinaman and get some 28holes going for my sweet fixie

Since you guys seem to be in the know, any idea where I can pick up some cheap moncler jackets and timberlands?

i love the internet

i thought i was going my own way with my last wheelset, but i am so hplusson approved.

does anybody knows the weight? and how the joints are made? hole options?
thought the deep h+son rims about the same price as a open pro so the new ones will be around that too?! guess than i prefer the mavic