Bush Admin. Wants to Rob Transit Fund to Pay for Highways
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Bush Admin. Wants to Rob Transit Fund to Pay for Highways
The administration wants to transfer billions of dollars from transit to highways:
It proposes to shore up the Highway Account of the federal Highway Trust Fund (HTF) by “borrowing” $3.2 billion from the HTF’s Mass Transit Account. It would also cut national transit spending by more than $200 million from previously proposed levels.
What's going on here? I'll do my best to make it interesting.
The Highway Trust Fund has two components: By law, 18.2 percent is set aside for transit, and the rest for highways. Problem is, the highway people have been spending down their part of the fund at an unsustainable clip, and they are on pace to run out of cash around October. If that happens, they will have to stop jobs -- cutting off exactly the kind of big-ticket construction projects that legislators love.
"The people on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee are going to scream bloody murder," says Burwell. "It's a violation of the spending structure established by ISTEA."
The most logical way to make up the shortfall, he believes, is to bump up the gas tax, but of course that's politically unpopular too. A more likely scenario will be a stop-gap measure like taking money from the general fund (which bumps up the federal deficit) or cracking down on gasoline wholesalers who cheat on gas tax payments (apparently this is a widely known problem that has gone largely unaddressed for some time).
In the not-too-distant future, more drastic measures will be necessary. The attempt to raid the Transit Fund is symptomatic of the same unsustainable financial situation that has caused the idea of privatizing highways to gain so much traction.
Burwell, an early champion of "context-sensitive" approaches to transportation projects, thinks privatization skirts the issue. "The solution is to figure out how to re-finance the Trust Fund and do it in a way that addresses public goals like reducing VMT and emissions."
more here
It proposes to shore up the Highway Account of the federal Highway Trust Fund (HTF) by “borrowing” $3.2 billion from the HTF’s Mass Transit Account. It would also cut national transit spending by more than $200 million from previously proposed levels.
What's going on here? I'll do my best to make it interesting.
The Highway Trust Fund has two components: By law, 18.2 percent is set aside for transit, and the rest for highways. Problem is, the highway people have been spending down their part of the fund at an unsustainable clip, and they are on pace to run out of cash around October. If that happens, they will have to stop jobs -- cutting off exactly the kind of big-ticket construction projects that legislators love.
"The people on the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee are going to scream bloody murder," says Burwell. "It's a violation of the spending structure established by ISTEA."
The most logical way to make up the shortfall, he believes, is to bump up the gas tax, but of course that's politically unpopular too. A more likely scenario will be a stop-gap measure like taking money from the general fund (which bumps up the federal deficit) or cracking down on gasoline wholesalers who cheat on gas tax payments (apparently this is a widely known problem that has gone largely unaddressed for some time).
In the not-too-distant future, more drastic measures will be necessary. The attempt to raid the Transit Fund is symptomatic of the same unsustainable financial situation that has caused the idea of privatizing highways to gain so much traction.
Burwell, an early champion of "context-sensitive" approaches to transportation projects, thinks privatization skirts the issue. "The solution is to figure out how to re-finance the Trust Fund and do it in a way that addresses public goals like reducing VMT and emissions."
more here
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,942
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12198 Post(s)
Liked 1,499 Times
in
1,110 Posts
In constant dollars the gas tax has dropped 2/3 from what it originally was. Inflation..
Highways are heavily subsidised by everyone. Increasing the gas tax, among other things, puts the burden of paying for roads on the people using the roads.
There's about a dozen other benefits as well.
Highways are heavily subsidised by everyone. Increasing the gas tax, among other things, puts the burden of paying for roads on the people using the roads.
There's about a dozen other benefits as well.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down on East End Avenue.
Posts: 1,816
Bikes: Salsa Las Cruces, Burley R&R and a boat load of others.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Unfortunately Bush is not working with us.
https://postcarboncities.net/node/1466
"Curbing emissions from cars depends on a three-legged stool: improved vehicle efficiency, cleaner fuels, and a reduction in driving," said lead author Reid Ewing, Research Professor at the National Center for Smart Growth, University of Maryland. "The research shows that one of the best ways to reduce vehicle travel is to build places where people can accomplish more with less driving."
https://postcarboncities.net/files/SG...18-07small.pdf
https://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/pdf/earlyrelease.pdf
https://postcarboncities.net/node/1466
"Curbing emissions from cars depends on a three-legged stool: improved vehicle efficiency, cleaner fuels, and a reduction in driving," said lead author Reid Ewing, Research Professor at the National Center for Smart Growth, University of Maryland. "The research shows that one of the best ways to reduce vehicle travel is to build places where people can accomplish more with less driving."
https://postcarboncities.net/files/SG...18-07small.pdf
https://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/pdf/earlyrelease.pdf
Last edited by slagjumper; 02-08-08 at 10:13 PM.
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
In the not-too-distant future, more drastic measures will be necessary. The attempt to raid the Transit Fund is symptomatic of the same unsustainable financial situation that has caused the idea of privatizing highways to gain so much traction.
more here
more here
The bottom line is we need to start tolling roads and selling off the freeways to private investors who WILL toll them. The cost of building highways is skyrocketing and we can no longer afford them anymore. It's time we pass them onto private investors who will make money on the poor motorists while maintaining a multibillion dollar highway system.
What are we going to raid next to pay for our highways? Social Security? Medicare?
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ky. and FL.
Posts: 3,944
Bikes: KHS steel SS
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Troy, NY
Posts: 15
Bikes: Fuji Touring for commuting; Jamis Ventura for fun
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Unfortunately the answer lies much deeper and this problem is just a symptom of debt based government spending.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,819
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
How about next time there is a bridge collapse in Minnesota, instead of joining in on the "crumbling infrastructure" panic reaction, we just let the bridge remain collapsed. I think it would have great symbolic value.
#8
Senior Member
What does one think he will do to the puny dollars set aside for alternative transportation. Like bike lanes. Gas goinng to four dollars a gallon and mass transit given the back burner. Crazy. But, then the asphalt lobby is far more powerful.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 4,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
In constant dollars the gas tax has dropped 2/3 from what it originally was. Inflation..
Highways are heavily subsidised by everyone. Increasing the gas tax, among other things, puts the burden of paying for roads on the people using the roads.
There's about a dozen other benefits as well.
Highways are heavily subsidised by everyone. Increasing the gas tax, among other things, puts the burden of paying for roads on the people using the roads.
There's about a dozen other benefits as well.
They also don't realize: Gas is still cheap. Find me a cheaper source of mass energy.
#11
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
gas only appears to be inexpensive because it is subsidized by the government with your tax dollars every step of the way, from the well to the refinery to the gas pump, and the harmful byproducts of it's combustion are dumped free of charge into the atmosphere / commons.
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
A lot of cites and states are going to have to come up the with money if Washington doesn't. Can you say TAXES!
The problem here is that road construction is a jobs works program and since we are headed into a recession, the government has to keep building to keep money flowing and employment up.
The problem here is that road construction is a jobs works program and since we are headed into a recession, the government has to keep building to keep money flowing and employment up.
#14
-=Barry=-
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
There has been discussions here about putting in toll lanes on our congested highways to help raise revenue for mass transit and more road expansion but that would only cause more congestion in the short run so they fight for first expand the highway then put in the toll lanes but once they start that they soon figure out no one will uses the toll lanes so they don't build toll lanes when there is no congestion and they don't build toll lanes when there is congestion. Heavy sigh.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
tolls for all users should be charged at the entrances and exits, just like the NYS Thruway. Or just eliminate the toll booths and use electronic tolling devices like the Port Authority Bridges in NYC. The technology is available now.
#16
another cat...FAB!
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 1st star to the right...
Posts: 1,381
Bikes: Merlin Ti Build, Trek Y-50, Bianchi Titanium Build, Custom Cuevas Road bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
There has been discussions here about putting in toll lanes on our congested highways to help raise revenue for mass transit and more road expansion but that would only cause more congestion in the short run so they fight for first expand the highway then put in the toll lanes but once they start that they soon figure out no one will uses the toll lanes so they don't build toll lanes when there is no congestion and they don't build toll lanes when there is congestion. Heavy sigh.
There is a rare exception, but it is very far away for us in the NYC area, the Trans Hudson Tunnel
__________________
Change the course of the Epidemic | The Merlin | Merlin XLM | Bianchi Ti | CyclePeople
Don't take it off until there's a cure LIVESTRONG | pay it forward | Cats | NEW Gallery
Don't take it off until there's a cure LIVESTRONG | pay it forward | Cats | NEW Gallery
9
#17
-=Barry=-
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
(That's the mantra around here. It's just really sad that the car is seen as such a necessity.)
Last edited by The Human Car; 02-10-08 at 06:37 PM.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: in bed with your mom
Posts: 13,696
Bikes: who cares?
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
the poor people of NYC seem to do just fine, and even many of the better off NYC residents don't own cars; it's the suburban commuters who are paying most of the tolls
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
10 Posts
I rented a car the other day and traveled only 40 miles paying 3 tolls costing $18.00 dollars! When you add that I spend $10.00 dollars in gas, that trip cost me $28.00 dollars in total. If I had to do that twice a day, I would be poor in no time and we are headed in that direction.
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,329
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Doesn't matter. All administrations shift money from one account to another to pay for programs they feel is needed at the moment. Congress usually rubber stamps it, esp if it's in their district or benefits their constituents, and if the money shift doesn't affect current projects adversely within that particular budget item.
In the current economic climate, it's going to be hard to raise taxes to pay for anything. A lot of people are struggling to pay their bills as it is and politicians want to keep their job. So shifting funds/money around is the most popular option and makes it seem like something is being done...the regular joe can see the results of where their tax money is being used for, since the majority drive/use their cars/trucks for transportation or on the job.
In the current economic climate, it's going to be hard to raise taxes to pay for anything. A lot of people are struggling to pay their bills as it is and politicians want to keep their job. So shifting funds/money around is the most popular option and makes it seem like something is being done...the regular joe can see the results of where their tax money is being used for, since the majority drive/use their cars/trucks for transportation or on the job.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Down on East End Avenue.
Posts: 1,816
Bikes: Salsa Las Cruces, Burley R&R and a boat load of others.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Step one pump Federal and state money into new roads in TX, step two turn the roads over to a foreign company. Step three, don’t fix parallel streets thus creating more traffic problems, unless you use the privatized tool road.
#23
-=Barry=-
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Baltimore, MD +/- ~100 miles
Posts: 4,077
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
The increasing cost of accommodating the automobile is becoming a major issue not only for the individual but for the government as well. Automobile ownership is increasing at twice the rate of the population and miles driven is increasing at three times the population growth rate.
#24
Banned.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: western Washington
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Mass transit that needed unionized, locally employed staff on a permanent basis would be an even better long-term jobs program than highways. Why does roadbuilding get all the credit that way?
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 2,369
Bikes: 2003 Giant OCR2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
New York, as a city, isn't representative of pretty much anywhere else in the country. To get the kind of density you find in NYC, the real estate goes up to the point where poor people can't even LIVE there.