-14lbs & 20% power increase possible? How much pain, time, etc.?
#1
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
-14lbs & 20% power increase possible? How much pain, time, etc.?
OK, so there's a local climb that currently takes me about 32 mins for me to complete.
In the absence of a powermeter, I go to https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm , and plug in the numbers (weight, grade, etc). Knowing how much time it takes currently vs. my time based goal, kreuzotter is estimating that my power would need to increase by 22%, I would have to lose 14lbs and I'd need a bike that's 5lbs lighter. Yeah, that's right, I said my power would need to increase by 22% AND I would have to lose 14lbs.To me that just sounds pretty ridiculous. I'd be giving myself the entire riding season (about 6 more months) for this improvement.
The easy part is losing 5lbs of bike, I can do that w/ my other frame and leaving tools, H2O, etc. at the bottom of the climb. Losing 14lbs is pretty doable (in about 3-4 months). I don't want to lose more than 14lbs. So, the hardest part is the whopping 22% power gain.
The facts (aka, the ugly truth)
How doable is this? I know it's a "stretch goal" to have for a single season, but I'm just wondering if I should temper my zeal w/ a dose of reality from this subforum. But that's not to say that I'm discouraging anyone from sharing success stories, pointers, advice, etc. either.
Give up and just enjoy bon-bons, pork rinds and whiskey?
In the absence of a powermeter, I go to https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm , and plug in the numbers (weight, grade, etc). Knowing how much time it takes currently vs. my time based goal, kreuzotter is estimating that my power would need to increase by 22%, I would have to lose 14lbs and I'd need a bike that's 5lbs lighter. Yeah, that's right, I said my power would need to increase by 22% AND I would have to lose 14lbs.To me that just sounds pretty ridiculous. I'd be giving myself the entire riding season (about 6 more months) for this improvement.
The easy part is losing 5lbs of bike, I can do that w/ my other frame and leaving tools, H2O, etc. at the bottom of the climb. Losing 14lbs is pretty doable (in about 3-4 months). I don't want to lose more than 14lbs. So, the hardest part is the whopping 22% power gain.
The facts (aka, the ugly truth)
- I'm 38.5 years old
- I currently weigh 184lbs
- In '05 I got back into cycling (after a 13yr hiatus), '07 was a bad year for me, so I'm some ways I'm starting from scratch in '08
- "Base" miles for '08 so far ~600
- Compared to much of the US, I'm in good health/shape. But that's still a ways off from a being in good "racing" shape/health
How doable is this? I know it's a "stretch goal" to have for a single season, but I'm just wondering if I should temper my zeal w/ a dose of reality from this subforum. But that's not to say that I'm discouraging anyone from sharing success stories, pointers, advice, etc. either.
Give up and just enjoy bon-bons, pork rinds and whiskey?
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
Last edited by celticfrost; 03-24-08 at 01:46 PM.
#2
Race to train
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I would think with only 600 miles in this year you would have a lot of room for improvement. Possible? Sure, just depends on your level of commitment.
#3
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OK, so there's a local climb that currently takes me about 32 mins for me to complete.
In the absence of a powermeter, I go to https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm , and plug in the numbers (weight, grade, etc). Knowing how much time it takes currently takes me vs. my time based goal, kreuzotter is estimating that my power would need to increase by 22%, I would have to lose 14lbs and I'd need a bike that's 5lbs lighter. Yeah, that's right, I said my power would need to increase by 22% AND I would have to lose 14lbs.To me that just sounds pretty ridiculous. I'd be giving myself the entire riding season (about 6 more months) for this improvement.
The easy part is losing 5lbs of bike, I can do that w/ my other frame and leaving tools, H2O, etc. at the bottom of the climb. Losing 14lbs is pretty doable (in about 3-4 months). I don't want to lose more than 14lbs. So, the hardest part is the whopping 22% power gain.
The facts (aka, the ugly truth)
How doable is this? I know it's a "stretch goal" to have for a single season, but I'm just wondering if I should temper my zeal w/ a dose of reality from this subforum. But that's not to say that I'm discouraging anyone from sharing success stories, pointers, advice, etc. either.
Give up and just enjoy bon-bons, pork rinds and whiskey?
In the absence of a powermeter, I go to https://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm , and plug in the numbers (weight, grade, etc). Knowing how much time it takes currently takes me vs. my time based goal, kreuzotter is estimating that my power would need to increase by 22%, I would have to lose 14lbs and I'd need a bike that's 5lbs lighter. Yeah, that's right, I said my power would need to increase by 22% AND I would have to lose 14lbs.To me that just sounds pretty ridiculous. I'd be giving myself the entire riding season (about 6 more months) for this improvement.
The easy part is losing 5lbs of bike, I can do that w/ my other frame and leaving tools, H2O, etc. at the bottom of the climb. Losing 14lbs is pretty doable (in about 3-4 months). I don't want to lose more than 14lbs. So, the hardest part is the whopping 22% power gain.
The facts (aka, the ugly truth)
- I'm 38.5 years old
- I currently weigh 184lbs
- In '05 I got back into cycling (after a 13yr hiatus), '07 was a bad year for me, so I'm some ways I'm starting from scratch in '08
- "Base" miles for '08 so far ~600
- Compared to much of the US, I'm in good health/shape. But that's still a ways off from a being in good "racing" shape/health
How doable is this? I know it's a "stretch goal" to have for a single season, but I'm just wondering if I should temper my zeal w/ a dose of reality from this subforum. But that's not to say that I'm discouraging anyone from sharing success stories, pointers, advice, etc. either.
Give up and just enjoy bon-bons, pork rinds and whiskey?
That said, your fitness will definitely be lacking if you've only done 600mi in the new year. You could very easily gain a good amount of power AND lose that weight simply by riding more, and harder.
300+ miles a week with two days of intervals will get you there.
#4
Just call me Chris
It depends. What is your base power now? For example: if you are at 200 watts and "only" need to get to 240, that is not too bad. But if you are at 400 and need to get to 500, well....., Good Luck Since the actual is probably in between, how bad do you want it?
#5
Senior Member
Join a race team. It's done wonders for my fitness. And don't use age as an excuse. Our best Cat 5 guy (now up in the 4's) is in his early 40's and placed 2nd and 3rd in races where the other big team in these races were college kids in their teens and early 20's. I'm the second to youngest person on our team at 28 years old.
If you've only done 600 miles of base, then yea, there is huge room for improvement.
If you've only done 600 miles of base, then yea, there is huge room for improvement.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#8
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#9
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
Yeah, I don't know if I'm quite a subscriber to the "base" miles theory, hence the quotes. But for now I have kind of put the past month or so of riding into the "beginning to get my legs and lungs back" category. And with a mere 600 miles there should be plenty o'room for improvement.
The good news is that for the the 1st time in 2 years I won't be traveling/ jet lagging due to work. Also, the gf pretty much gives me plenty of room for riding time (w/ the exception of most Sundays). I've also started bike commuting about 3 days a week and have met up w/ a team that should start doing hard intervals on Wednesdays. I'm planning on Wednesdays and Saturdays as being my high intensity days. And as my fitness picks up, throwing an odd Tuesday or Thursday nighter into the mix. There's TONS of weekly rides of varying levels starting in April and a couple of friendly, macho-man street duels on the bike commute home have already brewed-up as well.
Yep, no worries ^there^. But the "how bad do you want it" pretty much sums it up.
In progress, or at least attending various training rides for different clubs/ teams.
About 8 or 9 now, with a guesstimated 25% of that time at high intensity.
Damn taskmaster! 600 miles a week would probably put me at about 40 hrs p/wk given the terrain out here! But, I hear yah -- I plan on being up to 12-15 hrs p/wk by late April and going from there. Thanks for letting me keep (some of) the booze though.
The good news is that for the the 1st time in 2 years I won't be traveling/ jet lagging due to work. Also, the gf pretty much gives me plenty of room for riding time (w/ the exception of most Sundays). I've also started bike commuting about 3 days a week and have met up w/ a team that should start doing hard intervals on Wednesdays. I'm planning on Wednesdays and Saturdays as being my high intensity days. And as my fitness picks up, throwing an odd Tuesday or Thursday nighter into the mix. There's TONS of weekly rides of varying levels starting in April and a couple of friendly, macho-man street duels on the bike commute home have already brewed-up as well.
In progress, or at least attending various training rides for different clubs/ teams.
About 8 or 9 now, with a guesstimated 25% of that time at high intensity.
Damn taskmaster! 600 miles a week would probably put me at about 40 hrs p/wk given the terrain out here! But, I hear yah -- I plan on being up to 12-15 hrs p/wk by late April and going from there. Thanks for letting me keep (some of) the booze though.
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
Last edited by celticfrost; 03-24-08 at 08:15 PM.
#10
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
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Ride A LOT more.
I don't ride all that much compared to my competitors, had knee surgery, and am at 2000 miles for the year...for weight loss, it all depends on your body fat. If you're already lean, don't worry about giving up power. If you have 'bonus' fat, then losing some weight will be a big help.
I don't ride all that much compared to my competitors, had knee surgery, and am at 2000 miles for the year...for weight loss, it all depends on your body fat. If you're already lean, don't worry about giving up power. If you have 'bonus' fat, then losing some weight will be a big help.
#11
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For a 20 minute blow-up I don't see why 22% seems so daunting. Hours should be somewhere over 10/wk if you want to see meaningful improvement, and that's not including any lollygagging around or ice cream rides, either.
#12
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During the winter I'm at ~14hr a week, and as soon as it gets up to 60F on a regular basis, I'll be racing every weekend, and riding myself into the ground. And, a Beam/Jack and Coke or three with friends once in a while keeps it light.
#13
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Last year, after two months of training (in May), I was ~175 lbs and 250 FTP.
In October I was ~155 and 300 FTP.
Yup, it's possible.
In October I was ~155 and 300 FTP.
Yup, it's possible.
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ElJamoquio didn't hate the world, per se; he was just constantly disappointed by humanity.
#14
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
Ride A LOT more.
I don't ride all that much compared to my competitors, had knee surgery, and am at 2000 miles for the year...for weight loss, it all depends on your body fat. If you're already lean, don't worry about giving up power. If you have 'bonus' fat, then losing some weight will be a big help.
I don't ride all that much compared to my competitors, had knee surgery, and am at 2000 miles for the year...for weight loss, it all depends on your body fat. If you're already lean, don't worry about giving up power. If you have 'bonus' fat, then losing some weight will be a big help.
The only excuse I could ever have for not getting more miles in is work chaining me to my cube for 60+ hours a week, but even then I could probably manage.
I do 20+hrs a week when I have the time. Keep in mind I'm a single, post collegiate male who works a paltry 40 and then rides...gasp...for fun, 2-3hrs every weekday, and about that or more on the weekends. It's better than watching TV.
During the winter I'm at ~14hr a week, and as soon as it gets up to 60F on a regular basis, I'll be racing every weekend, and riding myself into the ground. And, a Beam/Jack and Coke or three with friends once in a while keeps it light.
During the winter I'm at ~14hr a week, and as soon as it gets up to 60F on a regular basis, I'll be racing every weekend, and riding myself into the ground. And, a Beam/Jack and Coke or three with friends once in a while keeps it light.
Nice job, now it's my turn.
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
#15
Making a kilometer blurry
I'm sitting on about 11% FTP gain in four months. Weight has been flat. I'm approaching a plateau though. I was coming off the best form of my life four months ago, so I think you've got room for 22% in 6 months. Losing the weight will be tough when you're riding as much as required.
#16
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I'm sitting on about 11% FTP gain in four months. Weight has been flat. I'm approaching a plateau though. I was coming off the best form of my life four months ago, so I think you've got room for 22% in 6 months. Losing the weight will be tough when you're riding as much as required.
#17
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
I'm sitting on about 11% FTP gain in four months. Weight has been flat. I'm approaching a plateau though. I was coming off the best form of my life four months ago, so I think you've got room for 22% in 6 months. Losing the weight will be tough when you're riding as much as required.
And can you guess what 4.5 mile climb I'm using as a baseline?
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"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
#18
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, as I most likely won't be collecting points, wins, and kisses from the podium girls one of my greatest rewards will being able to eat like a horse in a few months. I plan on trying to be at about a 350 average calorie deficit p/ day until ~12-14lbs come off. Then hoping that my appetite and riding kind of balance each other out for the rest of the season.
And can you guess what 4.5 mile climb I'm using as a baseline?
And can you guess what 4.5 mile climb I'm using as a baseline?
#19
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
Hah! I can't believe that I've never thought of Lookout Mtn. as an "Inspiration Point" type of place. I'm getting freakin' old. But at least it's high above the Coors brewery. The only thing w/ a more fetid stench than a can of Coors is the Coors brewery.
But even sadder than that is that MY lofty goal of climbing it in 25mins would STILL be a full 6mins off the top Cat4 and in the BOTTOM 20-25% of the Cat4's and Cat4's 35+:
https://www.americancycling.org/resul...okout-mtn.html
These guys are fast out here.
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"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
#20
Overacting because I can
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I'm a bit older and perhaps a bit fatter. Using a guided training program last year (only 7-9 hrs/wk; I have a time demanding job and 2 kids I actually like spending time with). I gained about 10-12% watts and only dropped a few lbs.
Gaining twice that and droping a **** load of weight seems like a two year goal to me unless you can really bump up the training time.
Gaining twice that and droping a **** load of weight seems like a two year goal to me unless you can really bump up the training time.
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“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
“Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm." (Churchill)
"I am a courageous cyclist." (SpongeDad)
#21
Making a kilometer blurry
I've done it in 21:00, and I'm a sprinter. You'll get under 25:00 for sure. That's just fit cyclist territory, not some goal made of unobtanium.
Another concern is that it's not a steep climb, so you can work on form and maybe gain some aero benefits from lowering your shoulders.
If you see my virginity out there, don't pick it up. It's old
Another concern is that it's not a steep climb, so you can work on form and maybe gain some aero benefits from lowering your shoulders.
If you see my virginity out there, don't pick it up. It's old
#22
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
I've done it in 21:00, and I'm a sprinter. You'll get under 25:00 for sure. That's just fit cyclist territory, not some goal made of unobtanium.
Another concern is that it's not a steep climb, so you can work on form and maybe gain some aero benefits from lowering your shoulders.
If you see my virginity out there, don't pick it up. It's old
Another concern is that it's not a steep climb, so you can work on form and maybe gain some aero benefits from lowering your shoulders.
If you see my virginity out there, don't pick it up. It's old
Stop bragging. I was alot quicker than that when I was a virgin.
But seriously, tell me that you did it in 21:00 after a few years of riding AND you were in your 20's??
Yep, kreuzotter says that in the drops will save me some time as well --- that'll come w/ more flexibility and less guttage.
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
Last edited by celticfrost; 03-24-08 at 02:52 PM.
#23
Raising the Abyss
Thread Starter
I'm a bit older and perhaps a bit fatter. Using a guided training program last year (only 7-9 hrs/wk; I have a time demanding job and 2 kids I actually like spending time with). I gained about 10-12% watts and only dropped a few lbs.
Gaining twice that and droping a **** load of weight seems like a two year goal to me unless you can really bump up the training time.
Gaining twice that and droping a **** load of weight seems like a two year goal to me unless you can really bump up the training time.
And a "**** load" of weight!!??
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
Last edited by celticfrost; 03-24-08 at 02:54 PM.
#24
Aut Vincere Aut Mori
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Stop bragging. I was alot quicker than that when I was a virgin.
But seriously, I'm guessing that you did it in 21:00 after a few years of riding AND you were in your 20's??
Yep, kreuzotter says that in the drops will save me some time as well --- that'll come w/ more flexibility and less guttage.
But seriously, I'm guessing that you did it in 21:00 after a few years of riding AND you were in your 20's??
Yep, kreuzotter says that in the drops will save me some time as well --- that'll come w/ more flexibility and less guttage.
#25
Making a kilometer blurry
Yeah, I was 21 years old. I'm much stronger now, but 13 lbs heavier. That was my 2nd year riding, when I went from Cat 5 to Cat 3 in six weeks (sprinting, not climbing).
There are certainly parts of that climb where the bar tops are appropriate (the switchback sections 1/4 up and 3/4 up). That long section in the middle, with the paragliders on your left, is where you can probably get into the hoods, bend the elbows a bit, and duck the headwinds.
Attack the steep parts and recover a bit on the shallows.
There are certainly parts of that climb where the bar tops are appropriate (the switchback sections 1/4 up and 3/4 up). That long section in the middle, with the paragliders on your left, is where you can probably get into the hoods, bend the elbows a bit, and duck the headwinds.
Attack the steep parts and recover a bit on the shallows.