Measuring the tension of the shift cables to keep it properly adjusted.
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Other posters have pointed out the problems, although Campagnolo has a solution.
Campagnolo's official installation procedure for Ultrashift levers testing cable friction involves observing rear derailleur movement with a 1kg (2.2 pound) weight hanging off the shifter end.
https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/ser...videoid_24.jsp
You don't need to measure anything once your installation has aged a bit. If it's noticeably sluggish shifting to smaller cogs or works OK skipping two cogs but not getting to the next one there's too much friction for some reason like frayed cable strands or a dirty rear loop. If not you're fine regardless of how much time has passed since your last cable and/or housing replacement.
Campagnolo's official installation procedure for Ultrashift levers testing cable friction involves observing rear derailleur movement with a 1kg (2.2 pound) weight hanging off the shifter end.
https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/ser...videoid_24.jsp
You don't need to measure anything once your installation has aged a bit. If it's noticeably sluggish shifting to smaller cogs or works OK skipping two cogs but not getting to the next one there's too much friction for some reason like frayed cable strands or a dirty rear loop. If not you're fine regardless of how much time has passed since your last cable and/or housing replacement.
Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 03-07-14 at 10:22 PM.
#27
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It's entertaining that threads like this go on and on even after the OP has the answer he wants. I should not talk, because I'll probably add to the chaff once I'm retired.
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The OP was based on a false premise, namely that shift performance was related to cable tension. The on point responses were either proceeding from that false assumption, or refuting it. The rest were just tangents, and in the normal way of BF, tangents off the tangents.
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Depends. Are you offering to write one, or seeking to cash one?
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Take brakes for example. I am using Zero Gravity Ti calipers, and for some reason I am able to get the pinch bolt tightened up with the pads squeezed really tightly against the rim. So I need to have plenty of adjuster barrel travel available to loosen up the calipers. So I start with the adjusters nearly fully extended. Then after I screw them in a few turns to open the pads up a bit, I have the adjusters just about in the middle of their range. That way I can go either way as needed, tighter if the cables stretch or looser if I need to open up the calipers more than the quick release allows to get the wheel out with a fat tire on it.
As for whether Campy runs the slackest, I have three bikes, each with a different brand of brifter and I just put them all in the small cog to see.
The first bike has 9s Mirage Ergos, upgraded with Centaur bits, running through a Shiftmate to a RD-7700 (although I'm pretty sure the RD isn't a factor). The cable on that is pretty much exactly between taut and floppy; just enough tension to make a low note when plucked. The second bike is rocking RED front and back, and sits just a tad looser in the small cog. The third bike has 9s 105 STI, shifting another RD-7700, and it's the same as the SRAM bike. (If you want a look at the bikes, I've just updated my Velospace entries, copy/paste the links <----)
But anyway, the amount of tension in the cable in top gear is what it is when you set the high limit properly (and it's highly sensitive to the screw's position). On each of my bikes, the chain has the same gap to the next-biggest cog both above and below the cassette. If you're suffering poor shifting due to drivetrain wear it often helps to back off the high limit screw a tad, compromising the alignment a bit just so the chain can make it onto the cog.
As to your reference to finding the no slack/zero tension point when stringing a cable, you're making the simple complicated. Basically, pull down the cable pulling out as much slack as you can and fastening. Then bring the lever to the first shift, and turn the barrel adjuster until it completes the corresponding shift.
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I recommend complicating that a bit, at least when using a fresh cable or particularly housing, especially for the pros to avoid the most common reason for a boomerang - before bothering with any adjustment, haul on the shifter without pedalling (use your judgement re how much force the shifter can handle), then pedal out the cable tension before releasing the shifter and re-clamping the cable; often another few mm pulls through. My RD adjustments stick; I don't get boomerangs over that.
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Unless tyre clearance with the QR open is an issue, I always start with the barrel adjusters screwed all the way in. I clamp the cable in order to pre-load the system to bed-in any ferrules and then feel the pad gap at the lever, and if it's not enough I back off the pinch bolt a bit until I can carefully pull just the right amount of cable through with the lever - this is pretty accurate, and gives you the full range of the barrel adjuster to take up pad wear. And it looks pro.
I'd much rather have the barrel adjuster set so there's still at least a little bit of adjustment left to loosen the cable in case that is called for during a ride.
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The same reasoning applies to setting up race bikes that may depend on neutral support. There'a always the risk that the cassette placement of a donated wheel won't be identical, so the ability to trim is a valuable. I especially miss the downtube adjusters which allow a wheel to be swapped in and the rider sent off to adjust trim on the fly.
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Last edited by FBinNY; 03-08-14 at 09:39 PM.
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Au contraire - on the odd bike without Shimano brakes it's a good idea to leave some leeway, but Shimano QRs are another adjustment unto themselves.
Open one halfway and see if you can budge it by operating the brake, go on.
Open one halfway and see if you can budge it by operating the brake, go on.
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I didn't realise they were being phased out; I figured it was just a dumb move by a few brands to leave them off. They're usually replaced by inline adjusters, but most of them kinda suck, except the rare fancy ones with a half-exposed thumbwheel midway along.
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You mean these?....
I didn't realise they were being phased out; I figured it was just a dumb move by a few brands to leave them off. They're usually replaced by inline adjusters, but most of them kinda suck, except the rare fancy ones with a half-exposed thumbwheel midway along.
I didn't realise they were being phased out; I figured it was just a dumb move by a few brands to leave them off. They're usually replaced by inline adjusters, but most of them kinda suck, except the rare fancy ones with a half-exposed thumbwheel midway along.
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As far as I know, DT boss adapters are still being made, or at least there's plenty of old stock out there. However, since downtube levers aren't used OEM, most new frames don't use those bosses anymore. Instead, they have brazed on cable stops, which is fine, except that many no longer use threaded stops which take an adjuster. That means rider adjustment on the fly isn't possible and, IMO more important, there's no cable adjuster t all for FDs.
If the bike has a brazed on cable stop, there are way of fitting adjusters to the cable. You can use in-line adjusters which aren't as bad as they have been made out to be or Jagwire makes the Mickey Adjuster which fits in the braze-on cable stop. The "fancy" in-line adjusters that Kimmo mentions are another Jagwire product and aren't that expensive.
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My reference to on the fly adjustments doesn't apply to casual riders who can make sure the bike is right before starting. Had you read it in full, you'd have known that I specifically referenced the problem of racers who need to swap wheels mid race, and the mechanics who service them. For them the ability to adjust on the fly can be make or break for that day's race.
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Last edited by FBinNY; 03-10-14 at 10:00 AM.
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My reference to on the fly adjustments doesn't apply to casual riders who can make sure the bike is right before starting. Had you read it in full, you'd have known that I specifically referenced the problem of racers who need to swap wheels mid race, and the mechanics who service them. For them the ability to adjust on the fly can be make or break for that day's race.
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And, there's nothing to consider. Of course, no adjusters were needed for friction shifting, since they all had on the fly trim adjusting via the fingertips. In an ideal world, there's no need to adjust trim while riding with index, since it's supposed to be dialed in, and is 99% of the time.
Index continues to improve, but when Shimano first introduced STI they provided not only a barrel adjuster on the D/T stop, but even a small cam like lever for quick on the fly adjusting. So, while you don't feel it's important, racers do, and Shimano did at one time also.
Then there's the FD, which has lost any trim fine tune as most bikes are shipped from the factory. This too, isn't insurmountable, and anyone who wants can always add an inline adjuster, but IMO the lack of an OEM adjuster shows an insensitivity to the mechanics who work on these bikes.
I know that you thrive on "correcting" people's posts, but there was nothing here to correct.
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And, there's nothing to consider. Of course, no adjusters were needed for friction shifting, since they all had on the fly trim adjusting via the fingertips. In an ideal world, there's no need to adjust trim while riding with index, since it's supposed to be dialed in, and is 99% of the time.
Index continues to improve, but when Shimano first introduced STI they provided not only a barrel adjuster on the D/T stop, but even a small cam like lever for quick on the fly adjusting. So, while you don't feel it's important, racers do, and Shimano did at one time also.
Mountain bikes, as a rule, don't have them but mountain bikes have adjusters built into the shifter itself.
Then there's the FD, which has lost any trim fine tune as most bikes are shipped from the factory. This too, isn't insurmountable, and anyone who wants can always add an inline adjuster, but IMO the lack of an OEM adjuster shows an insensitivity to the mechanics who work on these bikes.
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Let's end this, there's no real disagreement, except that you jumped on to a fine point without a sense of the context. In any case, whatever I say about the lack of adjusters on bicycles, would ONLY apply to those bikes that don't have them.
If you haven't seen bikes sold OEM without built in adjusters, you haven't, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
If you haven't seen bikes sold OEM without built in adjusters, you haven't, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
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Let's end this, there's no real disagreement, except that you jumped on to a fine point without a sense of the context. In any case, whatever I say about the lack of adjusters on bicycles, would ONLY apply to those bikes that don't have them.
If you haven't seen bikes sold OEM without built in adjusters, you haven't, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
If you haven't seen bikes sold OEM without built in adjusters, you haven't, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.
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Of course the "lack of adjusters" would only apply to bicycles that don't have them. I agree that there are some road bikes out there that lack adjusters. But the majority of bikes I've seen have some kind of adjuster integrated into the frame at the head tube. That's certainly not "most new frames" as you've posited.
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Careful there, Kimmo. I hear a suspicious zipping sound from your direction too.
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Sweet dreams, fellers - nighty-night.
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