Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-06, 04:59 PM   #1
bikemoner2k
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes: '78 trek 530 w/ full 600 group, conversion atami '70s frame.
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Paul hubs and stepped lockrings

So ive got a set of paul hubs. They come with a stepped lockring for use with cheap narrow cogs that dont extend past the cog threading on the hub.
Ive got a dura ace cog. It extends past the cog threading about half a mm.
The lockring was installed with the stepped side in even though it was not needed. No problem until the cog comes unthreaded yesterday while i was skipping.

Because the lockring was stepped, it was only threaded onto the two outside threads on the hub. The two that it was threaded onto were totally sheared off. I fixed it by flipping the lockring around so the flat side was up against the cog. It is now engaging the threads that were previously untouched. Im hoping this will hold but i may look into getting a replacement from paul since it is still within the warranty period.

Has anybody had a problem like this? If you are setting up a paul hub or any other with a stepped lockring, make sure you need the step before you use it.
bikemoner2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:01 PM   #2
hyperRevue
King Among Runaways
 
hyperRevue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MKE
Bikes: 2004 Bianchi Pista, Cannondale Track, Soma Pake, Schwinn Breeze
Posts: 4,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, I understood none of that.
__________________
"I owe everyone an apology" - hyperrevue
hyperRevue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:07 PM   #3
cavernmech
Jonnys ilegitimate Father
 
cavernmech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: toronto
Bikes: too many too list
Posts: 2,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemoner2k
So ive got a set of paul hubs. They come with a stepped lockring for use with cheap narrow cogs that dont extend past the cog threading on the hub.
Ive got a dura ace cog. It extends past the cog threading about half a mm.
The lockring was installed with the stepped side in even though it was not needed. No problem until the cog comes unthreaded yesterday while i was skipping.

Because the lockring was stepped, it was only threaded onto the two outside threads on the hub. The two that it was threaded onto were totally sheared off. I fixed it by flipping the lockring around so the flat side was up against the cog. It is now engaging the threads that were previously untouched. Im hoping this will hold but i may look into getting a replacement from paul since it is still within the warranty period.

Has anybody had a problem like this? If you are setting up a paul hub or any other with a stepped lockring, make sure you need the step before you use it.
If they are feeling nice they will replace it. Apparent improper installation of the lockring is not a warranty issue. If a shop installed it then they should pony up for a new hub forthwith.
cavernmech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:07 PM   #4
Aeroplane
jack of one or two trades
 
Aeroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Suburbia, CT
Bikes: Old-ass gearie hardtail MTB, fix-converted Centurion LeMans commuter, SS hardtail monster MTB
Posts: 5,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemoner2k
Because the lockring was stepped, it was only threaded onto the two outside threads on the hub. The two that it was threaded onto were totally sheared off. I fixed it by flipping the lockring around so the flat side was up against the cog. It is now engaging the threads that were previously untouched. Im hoping this will hold but i may look into getting a replacement from paul since it is still within the warranty period.
This is the part I don't get. The new Surly lockrings have a similar feature, where one side is stepped to allow more threads to engage with the hub. On the other side, though, the threads run right up to the face of the lockring. I don't see how this would happen. Maybe a diagram would help?

It is always a good idea to make sure that the lockring is tightened up right up against the cog.
Aeroplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:09 PM   #5
OneTinSloth
(Grouchy)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 3,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperRevue
Wow, I understood none of that.
i understood perfectly.
OneTinSloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:13 PM   #6
hyperRevue
King Among Runaways
 
hyperRevue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: MKE
Bikes: 2004 Bianchi Pista, Cannondale Track, Soma Pake, Schwinn Breeze
Posts: 4,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well, what can I say?
You're a better man than I.
__________________
"I owe everyone an apology" - hyperrevue
hyperRevue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:15 PM   #7
OneTinSloth
(Grouchy)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 3,643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...clearly.
OneTinSloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:29 PM   #8
zip22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


my understanding (probably no threading on the stepped part, since that wouldn't work, though)

A is how it was designed with a thin cog in mind
B is how it was installed because he thought it would be fine, but since it was barely hanging on it popped off
C is how he fixed it (and probably should have used it in the first place)
zip22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:30 PM   #9
bikemoner2k
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes: '78 trek 530 w/ full 600 group, conversion atami '70s frame.
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavernmech
If they are feeling nice they will replace it. Apparent improper installation of the lockring is not a warranty issue. If a shop installed it then they should pony up for a new hub forthwith.
I expected it to be an if theyre feeling nice issue. The thing about it is that it wasn't an improper installation of the lockring. The lockring made for the stepped side to face the cog. If i had thought about that being a potential issue i would have flipped it around in the first place but the lockring is made to have the stepped side facing in. With the paul /DA combo it didn't allow for enough thread engagement. The shop thing is an issue. I didn't go through a shop and my friend who built the wheels also put the cog and lockring on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeroplane
This is the part I don't get. The new Surly lockrings have a similar feature, where one side is stepped to allow more threads to engage with the hub. On the other side, though, the threads run right up to the face of the lockring. I don't see how this would happen. Maybe a diagram would help?

It is always a good idea to make sure that the lockring is tightened up right up against the cog.
I wish i had the computer graphics abilities to make a diagram. You can check out the product on www.paulcomp.com. It has an explanation for the stepped lockring. Its stepped differently than the surly is. Instead of the outside having a threaded portion that goes out further, the inside is machined out so about 1 mm can fit around the cog threading and touch a cog that doesnt stick out far enough.
bikemoner2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:31 PM   #10
bikemoner2k
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Bikes: '78 trek 530 w/ full 600 group, conversion atami '70s frame.
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip22


my understanding

A is how it was designed with a thin cog in mind
B is how it was installed because he thought it would be fine, but since it was barely hanging on it popped off
C is how he fixed it (and probably should have used it in the first place)
you're a genius. I dont know why i thought i needed graphics skills to make a diagram
bikemoner2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 05:40 PM   #11
cavernmech
Jonnys ilegitimate Father
 
cavernmech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: toronto
Bikes: too many too list
Posts: 2,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemoner2k
I expected it to be an if theyre feeling nice issue. The thing about it is that it wasn't an improper installation of the lockring. The lockring made for the stepped side to face the cog. If i had thought about that being a potential issue i would have flipped it around in the first place but the lockring is made to have the stepped side facing in. With the paul /DA combo it didn't allow for enough thread engagement. The shop thing is an issue. I didn't go through a shop and my friend who built the wheels also put the cog and lockring on.


I wish i had the computer graphics abilities to make a diagram. You can check out the product on www.paulcomp.com. It has an explanation for the stepped lockring. Its stepped differently than the surly is. Instead of the outside having a threaded portion that goes out further, the inside is machined out so about 1 mm can fit around the cog threading and touch a cog that doesnt stick out far enough.
I 100% understand the problem. The stepped design of the lockring was intended to be used with narrow cogs as you mentioned. Seeing as you did not have a narrow cog wouldn't it be logical to install with step out. Sorry if I am coming off like a ******...not intended.
cavernmech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 06:09 PM   #12
na975
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
so the stepped thread is sort of like a spacer for narrow cogs right?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 06:34 PM   #13
fix
yeahh, becky
 
fix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: DC
Bikes: 1990 Kotter Albuch, 2005 Empella Spaar Select Cross, 2007 Ridley Aedon
Posts: 1,395
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip22

This is awesome. Kidpix for lyfe.
fix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 06:37 PM   #14
ZachS
\||||||/
 
ZachS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: pdx
Bikes: highly modified specialized crossroads and GT hybrid (really a [formerly] 12-speed bmx cruiser, made before 'hybrid' took on its current meaning), as yet unmodified redline 925, couple of other projects
Posts: 1,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
looks like your friend installed the lockring incorrectly, and that's that. mistakes happen, but it would have been apparent that only two threads had engaged and nobody should think that's enough. hopefully paul will be kind and forgiving.
ZachS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 06:40 PM   #15
roadfix
hello
 
roadfix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Bikes:
Posts: 18,589
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
I understood perfectly. The stepped lockring is nice when used properly with a matching cog.
roadfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-06, 08:56 PM   #16
evanyc
i believe in me
 
evanyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brooklyn
Bikes:
Posts: 2,712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i ride pauls with a DA cog and have never had a similar problem
evanyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 07:17 AM   #17
Aeroplane
jack of one or two trades
 
Aeroplane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Suburbia, CT
Bikes: Old-ass gearie hardtail MTB, fix-converted Centurion LeMans commuter, SS hardtail monster MTB
Posts: 5,637
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikemoner2k
I wish i had the computer graphics abilities to make a diagram. You can check out the product on www.paulcomp.com. It has an explanation for the stepped lockring. Its stepped differently than the surly is. Instead of the outside having a threaded portion that goes out further, the inside is machined out so about 1 mm can fit around the cog threading and touch a cog that doesnt stick out far enough.
I see... the mspaint diagram spells it out.

In summary, the Paul lockring is good for cogs that are thinner than the hub threading, and the surly is good for cogs that are thicker than the hub threading.
Aeroplane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 07:22 AM   #18
queerpunk
aka mattio
 
queerpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,053
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
sweet diagram, zip...
queerpunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 11:26 AM   #19
Re-Cycle
<3s bikes
 
Re-Cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: CA
Bikes: lots
Posts: 1,054
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've used DA and Surly cogs on my paul hubs. Never had this problem. It was installed wrong and you'll be lucky to get it replaced.

As a side note the paul lock ring is one of the beefiest aloy lockrings I've seen. When installed properly it should be nigh bomb proof.
Re-Cycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 11:35 AM   #20
LóFarkas
LF for the accentdeprived
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Bikes:
Posts: 3,549
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanyc
i ride pauls with a DA cog and have never had a similar problem
And which way is your lockring facing? Cuz two threads won't hold for long... I know that from personal experience.
LóFarkas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 01:23 PM   #21
na975
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
can you use a tugnut on paul hubs?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 02:06 PM   #22
napalmandroses
broken spokes bike club
 
napalmandroses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: montreal
Bikes: never enough
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
anyone that builds wheels and thinks that two threads is going to work should have their wheel building license revoked

it seems to me like youre smarter than your friend that built the wheels

the first thing i did when i put hte DA cog on my paul hub was try it the way you had it...noticed it wasnt fitting...then flipped it around to see if it worked better...amazingly i decided the way that engages more threads works better...

i wouldnt be surprised if paul gave you a new hub but thats just cuz they are an awesome company that stands behind their product...even through user abuse and misuse and improper installation
napalmandroses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-06, 02:07 PM   #23
evanyc
i believe in me
 
evanyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Brooklyn
Bikes:
Posts: 2,712
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LóFarkas
And which way is your lockring facing? Cuz two threads won't hold for long... I know that from personal experience.
all but the single outmost thread on my lockring are engaged.
evanyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:25 PM.