powerband

For a beater/commuter, I bought a Schwinn Madison today for $340. It's a nice bike for the price, but it has a good amount of toe-overlap. To the owners of the Madison, have you noticed this, too?

Even though it's a size small, the stand-over height is 31.5 and the top tube length is 21.5 inches (normal reach for me). The crank arms are 170mm. And although it's marketed as a road/track bike, the headtube angle is only 72.5 (not 74 like my Rush Hour), so it's not that tight in geometry. While doing track stand, my foot gets tangled with the front wheel (and I have a normal-size foot - 9.5).

Is this normal? Has Schwinn made an egregious design flaw? How have owners resolve toe-overlap?

Thank you!

matt wisconsin

how long are your clips? sometimes putting smaller clips on will help a bit. shorter cranks is a more expensive way as well I would say.. but for a beater I don't know.

helloamerican

it's supposed to be like that. compromises for good geometry and whatnot.

powerband

The clips are normal length. In fact, I used the flat side of the pedals and moved my feet back as far as comfortable (basically the contact point was well fore of the ball of the foot), and overlap still occurred.

powerband

I have some toe-overlapping with my other bike, the Rush Hour, but the overlapping with the Schwinn Madison seems more pronounced - I almost bit it while doing a track stand at a light. Anyway, I agree with you about compromising for good track geometry, but I wouldn't say the Madison has the tightest geometry. In fact, the toptube length on the Schwinn Madison is longer than the Raleigh Rush Hour (on which the crank arms are 165, instead of 170 like on the Madison), and I can't quite figure out where things went wrong mathematically. Can 170mm be that much longer than 165mm for crank arms to cause such severe toe-overlapping?

cizzlak

it can. 5mm longer.

but seriously, another thing to consider besides HT angle and wheelbase is your fork rake. i would be willing to bet the trail is different on these two bikes, but i am not about to go look it up to prove it to myself.

lisitsa

Well Madison has no fork rake, its a straight blade. I have it and its funny that you bought it as a beater. This is the most expensive bike I've ever bought. But I guess you don't appreciate things as much when you got heaps of money. Anyway there is a bit of overlap, but I only feel it when I'm at a standstill, you never need to turn your wheel as much when you're actually riding. Although I do use clipless, so I don't have extra space for the cage to further pronounce the overlap.

Anyway keep riding, and not meaning to attack you for a 400 dollar beater bike, but simply that you should value it cause not everyone can afford to throw around that much for their second or third bike.

eXCeSS

it can be straight bladed and have rake.

the fork itself is at a very different angle than the steer tube.

BMonei

Most bikes 56cm or smaller will have some sort of toe overlap.

powerband

No offense taken, and I don't mean to say that a beater bike is not appreciated. By beater bike I mean it is a bike on which I will go almost everywhere for nearly any reason. Money doesn't come easy for me and I work hard and long hours for every penny I make. As such, I get to enjoy the things I buy with the money I make, so long as I also put some money away for investment, retirement and a rainy day, and as long as I know that the important things in life aren't the possessions I can touch but the things I can do -- such as riding, literature, traveling and being with the ones I care about.

Enough about my idealism and let's get back to the Madison. I put clipless pedals on this morning and rode to work. I was able to move the cleats forward of the shoes (effectively moving my feet back on the pedals) and now doing track stands are a little less risky.




I was referring to it being a problem during track stand. This is where I'm offended that you presumed to give me a riding lesson.

Adam777

Where did you find a deal like that? I am not really in the market for a new bike, but I love the way these look and would buy one for sure at that price. Any place online that sells 'em for anywhere near that?

4zn_balla

sorry to sound like a ******, but why does it matter?

cizzlak

fork rake != trail

but whatever. go about your business.

[EDIT]

by the way, not to nitpick too excessively, but moving your cleats around solely to avoid toe lap is probably not the best thing you can do for your power transfer. as a general rule you want your cleats somewhere in the vicinity of the ball of your feet.

orbThorn

You should turn the wheel toward your front foot when track standing.

powerband

No, not nitpicking at all. When I mountain bike, I had the cleats all the back as far as possible for what I felt was the best control for me. For the Madison, I moved the cleats forward more, which effectively places it right under the ball of my feet. It feels ok and I'm not doing crazy stuff that requires maximum control.

powerband

I do, but I must admit I'm not 100% smooth with my track-stand and periodically require sudden adjustments. This was where I got into trouble with the toe-overlap. It's better now, since I've repositioned my cleats slightly forward, decreasing the amount of toe-overlap just enough to allow me to point the toes down so that, when making sudden adjustments, the wheel can pass right by the foot.

All good, and loving my "beater" Madison.

PS. "Madison" is a porn name, which makes me love my bike even more.

cizzlak

it is also the name of the liberal mother-of-earth hippy town we call our capitol city here in wisco. though they do have an impressive bike culture out there. if only milwaukee was... more liberal and mother-of-earth hippy... haha (i just said that!!)

powerband

Sweet. Any unshaven porn stars with nose rings in this hippie town?

kjunx

powerband - I had the 07 madison and yep, major toe overlap. Geometry is a bit diff compared to other bikes i have checked out. standover is pretty tall compared to the tt, all in all it was a great ride i just had to be real careful when i was going slow in traffic up to a light when the cars were packed in tight.. few times my front wheel would get caught in between the toe clip and catch.. you get comfortable not doing this after a while but yes, it's still in the back of your mind when you're riding. clipless is the way to go if you can w/ that bike. 165 crankarms would help, but a pricey option. I recently sold my madison to purchase a surly steamroller, test road a 53cm and 56 and no toe overlap.. Best of luck. ~kj

powerband

Thanks, kjunx. I definitely will have to be conscious of the overlapping when approaching slowly to a redlight or while maneuvering around packed cars. Since I put clipless pedals on, it has been a no issue, but probably only because I'm more aware of it. At worse, the overlapping is about half an inch, but with the foot cocked upward, the wheel and foot clear each other fine.

I really like the Madison as a casual daily ride. Here are some pictures of it:;

https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespeed-fixed-gear/430606-schwinn-madison-some-pictures-comments.html

Cheers!

kjunx

sweet ride ! like the changes you've made to the stock version