johnnytheboy

i mean it rains sometimes, but dumps for 30mins at a time, then it's dried up in a couple hours. and then humid for a couple weeks after.

TenSpeedV2

Sounds like a cool job!! Should have gotten into computers straight out of the Army but didn't. Missed the boat on the Pharmacist thing, but I am a Pharmacy Technician at an 850 bed level 1 trauma hospital.

scoho

Paraffin waxed my chain and rode about 15 miles in pretty dusty conditions:



The visual results were stunning. The riding results...not so much.

The chain was initially super smooth. But before long the sound and feel were reminiscent of a chain that hasn't been lubed in a long time, except without any of the accumulated grit. It was fine as long as I was just cruising along, but as soon as I hit a headwind or an incline, or needed to resistance pedal, I could feel and hear the chain way too much for my liking.

As wonderful as it is to have a drivetrain that is still clean to the touch even after a dirty ride, there's no way I can stick with this unless I can figure out how to improve drastically on the functional results. Thoughts from anyone who's had success with this?

Lars Honeytoast

Drizzles for days over here in Europe. And Winter is real fun.

TimothyH

I believe that caring for the sick is one of the highest callings one can have. Either directly or indirectly you are doing that and my hat is off to you.

Level 1 trauma center is about as serious as it gets. Man, I wouldn't last five minutes in that environment.

TimothyH

This is interesting and I'd be really interested to hear if you figure it out.

Please let us know if you find a solution.


-Tim-

ThermionicScott 

+1, good on you @TenSpeedV2.

ThermionicScott 

The ancient New Balances I was using with my Power Grips finally hit the throw-away point and the new sneakers don't slide in as easily as I'd hoped. Perhaps with more break-in they'd work, but after last night's group ride, I'd had enough and swapped on a spare pair of PD-M520L pedals. So Today I rode my fixed-gear with clipless pedals for the first time in its 8000+ miles. The instant engagement at each green light was a huge relief compared to my recent riding, and I had no mishaps at stops.

Why the **** didn't I do this swap ages ago??

SquidPuppet

Hey what is the seat tube angle on that bike? I looks damn near vertical.

TimothyH

^^LoL

Nice light hearted "I told you so" followed by a polite subject shift. Played like a gentleman.

bonsai171

Happy belated birthday!

Dave

50voltphantom

scoho

Yeah


The picture angle exaggerates the effect a bit, but, you're right, it is very steep. It was a little off-putting at first, but now I find the bike super comfortable and smooth--at slow speeds. It's not much for going fast, though, which is pretty odd considering its provenance.

SquidPuppet

Yeah it's like the saddle is almost directly over the crank. I couldn't make that work for me because the only way I feel a healthy leg extension (strength and hip joint comfort) is way way way aft of KOPS.

Are you going to continue with the wax experimentation?

I discovered the shortcomings of waxed chains by using it to replace traditional wet lube on my motorcycles. I used a spray on wax "Specifically designed for racing applications". It had a solvent that carried the wax into all the important areas. I'd wipe off the excess after applying it and the chain was super clean. Once the wax set up it made the chain rotate like greased butter. Unbelievably quiet and smooth. You could literally feel a big difference when rotating the wheel by hand. The chain made this dull muted rumble as if it wasn't even made out of metal. And it didn't fling off and make a mess. It stayed on the chain. Very sanitary indeed.

You were supposed to lube and wait an hour or so before riding for the setting to occur. I always lubed the night before every ride. The problem was that within an hour or so the solvent evaporated and only the wax remained.

When racing we always wore full faced helmets and high end ear plugs to deaden the LOUD wind noise and LOUDER exhaust sounds that were fairly punishing. One day we found a really remote stretch of pristine uphill highway. Middle of nowhere. We decided to take a break and take turns watching each other behave like juvenile delinquents riding wheelies up and down the hill. I sat roadside with a buddy with my helmet off and earplugs removed while other buddies did their hooligan shenanigans. When one of them went past us his drive train was making this HELLACIOUS noise. It sounded like raw metal sawing raw metal. I said to my buddy sitting next to me, "WTF is that? Thank goodness my bike doesn't sound like that." My buddy said to me, "It does."

When I got home I put the bike on the stand and spun the rear wheel. That delicious flannel pillow case silence had been replaced with a vile scratchy sound. Stupidly, I used that stuff for a few more rides. Long enough to discover my chain became toast in 1/10th it's normal lifespan, taking my expensive and sexy Renthal sprocket with it to the graveyard.

Well, at least it was good to know I got my money's worth out of those earplugs.

After that I began researching that product and waxing chains in general more closely. That's when I found the article claiming that wax was not a good idea. His explanation made too much sense to ignore and aligned with my experience as well.

Plus, Sheldon Brown said wax sucks. So there's that too...

scoho

Ugh. Yes, but I don't think it's going to work.

Yesterday I just did the standard wax bath, so I'm still going to give it a shot with added solvent and PTFE.

As you know (), the essential problem is just keeping the damned stuff in there; the thin surface film that gets left behind just isn't enough. Maybe that thin film + PTFE will do the trick? But I don't think so.


Ha. Well, he also thought that that anti-corrosion factory goop chain comes coated with is the best lube. And that eccentric contractions cause damage to your muscles that makes you weaker over time. He was a god, for sure, but a fallible one.

TenSpeedV2

Today I am going down to the shop to install my new crank that came in.

SquidPuppet

How long does the full process take, from removal to reinstalling?


I subscribe to this. At least regarding KMC and Shimano. I use KMC chains and whatever the factory applies is great. Dead silent and lasts longer than any lube I've used.

This quote is from Nick Murdock, one of Shimano's main tech guys.

That sounds better than just a rust inhibitor to me.

https://www.bikerumor.com/2011/06/28...-with-shimano/

UltraManDan

I assume you'll be posting pics??

TenSpeedV2

Once it is done, sure will be!

scoho

The first application is a bit cumbersome. Remove and super clean chain, super clean rest of drivetrain, melt wax, leave chain in hot wax for a while, remove chain and wipe off excess wax, let chain cool, reinstall chain.

But after that first application, I've moved on to an applicator bottle that's about 2/3 wax and 1/3 solvent. Just leave the bottle in warm water to liquify the wax, then apply like regular lube. I did that today, and left on way more surface wax that you're supposed to, and rode 20 miles. It was better than the first ride, but still not close to good enough for my liking.

Now trying to decide whether to order a bottle of PTFE or just scrap the whole experiment.

By the way, I find it interesting that @TMonk has conveniently disappeared.


Haha, it's amazing how variable people's experiences are. I've never had good luck with the factory goop on any of my KMC or Izumi chains--tried leaving it on almost all of them, failed to get a nice ride every time.

SquidPuppet

Interesting. I hadn't heard of that technique. Everything I've read was guys rebathing.

keep going. Mostly to prevent future wondering. Ya gotta know, ya know?

TMonk

I've been summoned.

TMonk

I think you guys may be onto something - what I like is the cleanliness, and the ritual. But @SquidPuppet's argument makes sense, and I didn't know about his moto experience.

My main concern: If the wax does that bad a job at lubricating, am I significantly decreasing the life of my drivetrain components vs using wet lube? That's real, and affects my pocket! If not, I'll carry on. Gotta do some more reading.

TimothyH

I question the ability of wax to prevent wear.

Everyone speaks about cleanliness and studies focus on watts/drag but the primary purpose of a lube is to prevent wear and I've never heard anyone address this.

Lubes prevent wear by setting up a film between metal parts. The film can be wet or dry. Wet films prevent moving metal parts from contacting each other because liquids cannot be compressed.

Liquids can however, be displaced and this can allow metal parts to contact. Additive packages help prevent displacement and can help with problems such as when two parts slide against each other and "shear" the lube.

Squid Puppet alluded to displacement and shear when he wrote:

How well a wax copes with displacement and shear and ultimately how well it protects against wear is something I've not heard discussed. I'm not saying that it doesn't prevent wear, only that I don't hear anyone talking about it.

It is all academic to me anyway as I tend to replace parts proactively but it is an interesting topic.


-Tim-

SquidPuppet

Well the good thing about the cleanliness is you'll be able to easily inspect your components for wear. Not sarcasm. Although that could also work as a good sarcastic line.

Do you log your miles for training or component life span? You could just keep an eye on that and see how things hold up and make a comparison when they do expire. Then you'd have sound evidence one way or the other.

I fully expected to be called out on my motorcycle story as an unfair comparison. And it is unfair. I didn't submerge my chain so that's not equal. The wax products are not identical, so that's not fair. And the motorcycles made in excess of 150 HP, gobs of torque, and spent their entire lives in full thrash mode. I believe that the power of the motorcycles displaced the wax way faster than a bike could, and therefore the wear occurred sooner and was more aggressive. But I believe it's a case of same principle, different rate.

I noticed something that seemed to be a common denominator in all the online discussions that I visited. There seemed to be a focus on the cleanliness. Post after post praised no more leg tattoos, no grease on jerseys when putting the bike on the rack, I didn't have to find a stick when my chain derailed, I don't have to wear gloves when fixing a flat, I don't get grease on the back seat of my car, etc, etc. Those are all wonderful side benefits indeed. Side benefits. But that's not why we lubricate chains.

But WTF do I know. I like rice in burritos.